Ramon Urias hopeful comp: Eduardo Escobar?

[Frobby]

I saw that the Mets signed Eduardo Escobar this weekend for 2/$20 mm.   Solid pro who’s played all over the infield, career .256/.309/.436 hitter (99 OPS+), 11.9 rWAR.   Last year, .253/.314/.472 (109 OPS+), 2.4 rWAR.

Is is realistic to think Ramon Urias can be as good as Escobar?   I think so.   So far he’s hit .286/.365/.425 (115 OPS).   Significantly better BA/OBP, not quite as much power.   Similarly versatile to Escobar but maybe a tick below overall with the glove.    

Urias is kind of overlooked for us.  We tend to lump him in with Mateo and Gutierrez as guys who we are taking flyers on and/or are stopgaps until Westburg, Henderson and others arrive, but I think it’s possible Urias could be a reasonably valuable piece over the next few years.   I like his approach at the plate.    He just needs to settle in somewhere defensively, preferably 2B IMO.
 

[Sports Guy]

I have been saying since before last season started..  Urias is a good player.  He’s far more likely to be a contributor compared to Mateo.   Urias should be penciled in as the everyday second baseman from day 1 and just see how things go.  A 2-3 WAR player is very possible.

I don’t even know why we are even discussing Gutierrez in any significant role.  That makes no sense to me.

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I have been saying since before last season started..  Urias is a good player.  He’s far more likely to be a contributor compared to Mateo.   Urias should be penciled in as the everyday second baseman from day 1 and just see how things go.  A 2-3 WAR player is very possible.

I don’t even know why we are even discussing Gutierrez in any significant role.  That makes no sense to me.

As to Gutierrez, I agree he’s not likely to play any significant role.   He did look better with the bat the last few weeks of the year so there’s always hope that something clicked, vs. just a hot streak.  His MiL numbers suggest he could be a more decent hitter than what his major league numbers to date indicate.   But I certainly am not counting on him being a long term piece.  

I don’t want to get hung up on that since this is a Urias thread.   Sounds like you and I have a similar opinion of him.  

 

[Sports Guy]

The Os don’t really have any other option imo.  Urias has just been a better player than Mateo.  Mateo had the prospect ranking but so what?  That only means he has had talent, not that he is a good baseball player.

Urias didn’t have the pedigree and had to earn things in Mexico but so what.  If you can play, you can play and he can play. 

[Just Regular]

The first half of 2022 I see 2B Urias as a 7th Oriole (assuming Mancini is tendered and kept) I am actually proud to see in the lineup any given day once Adley gets here and our seven best regulars are ambulatory.

Buy Correa and Bryant (or rent Donaldson, never mind Chapman) and I'll even pitch three months with who we have with a hope of Hall being good in the spring and the team being a July buyer.  7-5 wins are more fun than 3-1 wins anyway.

On Urias, he's played his way up to the Hays/Santander level for me - he's shown proof of short-term quality, but can he maintain/adjust when the league actually thinks hard about him, or even force the league to do that by putting enough months of decent play together without an owie?

 

[Moose Milligan]

Urias is a good player and I'd like to see him be the full time 2nd baseman in 2022.  He can hit a little, there's good separation between the batting average and on base percentage...not a lot of power, but that's fine.  If he can hover at that .365 OBP range, that's a good #2 hitter.  The glove at 2nd seems solid...maybe not spectacular, but that's okay.  There's a good bit of value here.

SS/3B remains to be seen, they can keep shuffling the deck chairs over there as far as I'm concerned but 2nd base should be held down by Urias.  He's earned it.

[sportsfan8703]

I agree. Urias has earned to be the everyday 2B. Mateo, and Fox, can battle it out at SS with the loser battling Guiterrez for PT at 3rd Base. 
 

I think Mateo can lock down SS offensively and grow his defense there. He has all the tools. It would be nice to get one IF type of waivers, that has upside, that can challenge at 3B. 
 

We’re not going to have too many holes as far as position players go once AR comes up. I like everything else. I like McKenna as OF depth. I like our IF Util possibilities.  It’s just what do we do at 3B in 2022. Guiterrez?  Bannon?  Nevin?  Waiver wire?  

[Tony-OH]

Urias is an interesting player who had a real good under the radar season last year.

He put up the 2nd best WOBA (.341) on the team behind Mullins (.372), and his xWOBA was .343 suggesting he wasn't lucky. He put up a 115 wRC+ with above major league average EV, Barrell %, and hard hit%. 

He was 27 years old so he's in his prime, so there's no reason to think he will have a significant decline.

The problem is he's a below average defender pretty much everywhere you play him on the infield. He's got a below average arm that makes him below average coming in on balls from SS and turning double plays.

Statcast really didn't like him at SS where he was -5 OOA at SS and -2 OAA at 2B. Fangraphs has him at -3.9 UZR/150 (basically he costs the team almost 4 runs over 150 games) and -3.2 UZR/150 at 2B. Baseball reference has him at .04 dWAR which is a surprise, but dWAR is the weakest evaluations of defense for me.

Personally, I think he's decent enough at 2B defensively and should go into the season as the every day 2B. 

Now, I do think they should take a look at Mateo but I like him as more of a super sub utility guy. 

[wildcard]

Urias could be a #2 hitter if his OBP holds up.   Behind Mullins and is front of the big bats in the middle of the lineup.   I like him for 2B also.

[Moose Milligan]

Getting back to Frobby's original comp, based on what Urias has done so far, I'd be slightly disappointed if he put up Eduardo Escobar numbers.  

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

Urias is an interesting player who had a real good under the radar season last year.

He put up the 2nd best WOBA (.341) on the team behind Mullins (.372), and his xWOBA was .343 suggesting he wasn't lucky. He put up a 115 wRC+ with above major league average EV, Barrell %, and hard hit%. 

He was 27 years old so he's in his prime, so there's no reason to think he will have a significant decline.

The problem is he's a below average defender pretty much everywhere you play him on the infield. He's got a below average arm that makes him below average coming in on balls from SS and turning double plays.

Statcast really didn't like him at SS where he was -5 OOA at SS and -2 OAA at 2B. Fangraphs has him at -3.9 UZR/150 (basically he costs the team almost 4 runs over 150 games) and -3.2 UZR/150 at 2B. Baseball reference has him at .04 dWAR which is a surprise, but dWAR is the weakest evaluations of defense for me.

Personally, I think he's decent enough at 2B defensively and should go into the season as the every day 2B. 

Now, I do think they should take a look at Mateo but I like him as more of a super sub utility guy. 

His defense is fine at second.  I wouldn’t want him getting real time anywhere else but he’s old enough at second and maybe, if he’s getting everyday reps and not being moved around, he can get a little better.
 

He also doesn’t have anyone pushing at that position right now.  Should be able to get a lot of playing time and show what he can do this year.  I just hope Hyde doesn’t bench him if he doesn’t hit early.  Give him until June at least.

[Jammer7]

I’ve liked him since 2020. I particularly like the way he can hit line drives to RF at any time. He also makes a lot of solid contact. Those things along with his OBP, and solid chase rate, make him a great candidate for the #2 hole. If he learns to pull the ball more on certain pitches, his power numbers (SLG) will increase although the OBP may take a small dip. He certainly works with a RCF approach, and I hesitate to mess with it too much. 

Defensively, his hands are sometimes a bit stiff. Tony cited the stats, and they make sense. I thought the arm was average at SS, but the range and hands were below average there. But it wasn’t bad for occasional duty there.

As far as Mateo, we do not know what to make of him yet. I think you make him compete for the job at SS, but hope he grabs it and runs with it. He is going to make some mistakes, but I hope he makes steady progress as a SS. It isn’t about his prospect status at all, but it is about the tools that earned that status for him. Bat him 9th and just let him be. See what you get out of it. He is definitely not capable at 3B.

At 3B, I really liked what I saw in Gutierrez defensively. The bat showed some promise and he has tools to work with. It seemed like they brought his hands down a bit and his late power surge coincided with that. He is very athletic, a 60 runner, a 65 arm, very good hands in the field and at the plate. I really want to see if Ryan Fuller can help him make more hard contact and hit the ball in the air more. Like Mateo, make him earn it. If he does, leave him there. Bat him 7th or 8th. You just might have a late bloomer there. He’s a potential gold glove quality 3B in the AL. The only other option at 3B is…Nevin? I know he was said to have improved there, but yikes. 

Urias, Mateo and Gutierrez could just be solid place holders until Westburg, Henderson, Norby, Ortiz, etc… are ready. I would be fine with that outcome for 2022. I could see bringing in a SS like a Freddy Galvis, but I am tempted to give Mateo every chance to see if he can play an everyday SS. 

[Aristotelian]

Urias had a very solid season. Might never put up more than 2 WAR, but also has a pretty high floor based on defensive versatility and good plate approach. Could be part of the next core or could be flipped when Westburg is ready. Either would be a great outcome.

[interloper]

I love Urias and will be upset if he's not a clear starter at 2B this season. He's more than deserving of that on this team.

[jamalshw]

I agree that Urias should get everyday ABs to start the season. I want him at 2B and Mateo at SS at least out of the gate. Let them either prove themselves or take themselves out of consideration going forward. Urias, given his solid 2021, should have the longer leash of the two. If Urias can prove himself as a solid 2B (or even a super utility type), that take some pressure off the system with regards to the likes of Vavra, Westburg, Henderson, Mayo, Norby, etc. whereas it's one less guy we NEED to pan out.