What do the players have to complain about?

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, survivedc said:

Like it or not, baseball will need to do something to keep younger fans interested in the game and the pitch clock seems to be the perfect solution. 30 seconds (sometimes) between pitches makes it so easy to pick up your phone and do some scrolling.

Further, it’s not as if reducing time between pitches fundamentally alters the game. In the 60’s and 70’s plenty of pitchers worked much quicker. 

You have to keep the batter in the box.

I think that's actually more of the problem. 

Just have the umps refuse to grant them time unless it is actually needed.

[Frobby]

9 minutes ago, survivedc said:

Like it or not, baseball will need to do something to keep younger fans interested in the game and the pitch clock seems to be the perfect solution. 30 seconds (sometimes) between pitches makes it so easy to pick up your phone and do some scrolling.

Further, it’s not as if reducing time between pitches fundamentally alters the game. In the 60’s and 70’s plenty of pitchers worked much quicker. 

I think the batters are equally to blame, maybe more so.   Everyone’s Mike Hargrove now, stepping out after every pitch, fiddling with their batting gloves, etc.   I once proposed having them wear shock collars that go off if they step outside the box during an at bat, but the union didn’t like my idea.   

[HowAboutThat]

23 minutes ago, Frobby said:

There’s so much I could say in response to your long post, but I couldn’t let this misstatement of baseball history get buried.   

Ted Williams was the last .400 hitter, but his .406 was not the highest in baseball history.   Depending on who you are including (e.g., Negro Leagues) and when you are starting (pre- or post-1900), there are any number of players who hit higher than .406.   BB-ref now ranks Williams at 42nd on the all time list, and even if you stripped out the Negro Leagues and pre-1900 players, you’d have at least 7 seasons where someone outhit .406.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/batting_avg_season.shtml

 

I freely admit that I was incorrect, but as I said it was an educated guess, but it doesn’t change my point which is that hitting is hard, hitting has always been harder than pitching which is why the best in the world still fail most of the time.

 So yes I was incorrect, but that was irrelevant. but the point remains valid. And everything else I said, God bless you Frobby, is also valid.

 

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Philip said:

I freely admit that I was incorrect, but as I said it was an educated guess, but it doesn’t change my point which is that hitting is hard, hitting has always been harder than pitching which is why the best in the world still fail most of the time.

 So yes I was incorrect, but that was irrelevant. but the point remains valid. And everything else I said, God bless you Frobby, is also valid.

 

I agree that the inaccuracy doesn’t affect your argument that hitting is hard.  I just couldn’t let it stand though.   I couldn’t let Ty Cobb, Rogers Hornsby, Nap Lajoie, George Sisler and Shoeless Joe Jackson roll over in their graves, among others.    Even Ted himself wouldn’t like to get credit that wasn’t due.   

I think your views on what needs to be fixed are somewhat chauvinistic.   E.g., you don’t mind watching a baseball game that takes 3.5 hours to play, so to you that’s not something that needs to be fixed.   Well, there are literally millions of people who don’t watch because of the time commitment and especially the time that games end on weeknights.   And pace of play is also a huge problem that has turned off a lot of fans.  Just because those things don’t bother you doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be addressed to increase/maintain the fan base.    I’m all in favor of increasing the amount of action in the game, but if that action occurs after 11 pm Eastern, I’m probably asleep.    
 

[Moose Milligan]

9 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I agree that the inaccuracy doesn’t affect your argument that hitting is hard.  I just couldn’t let it stand though.   I couldn’t let Ty Cobb, Rogers Hornsby, Nap Lajoie, George Sisler and Shoeless Joe Jackson roll over in their graves, among others.    Even Ted himself wouldn’t like to get credit that wasn’t due.   

I think your views on what needs to be fixed are somewhat chauvinistic.   E.g., you don’t mind watching a baseball game that takes 3.5 hours to play, so to you that’s not something that needs to be fixed.   Well, there are literally millions of people who don’t watch because of the time commitment and especially the time that games end on weeknights.   And pace of play is also a huge problem that has turned off a lot of fans.  Just because those things don’t bother you doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be addressed to increase/maintain the fan base.    I’m all in favor of increasing the amount of action in the game, but if that action occurs after 11 pm Eastern, I’m probably asleep.    
 

What a narcissistic view that must be.  "It doesn't affect me so I want it this way, nevermind what other people may think."

[owknows]

4 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

What a narcissistic view that must be.  "It doesn't affect me so I want it this way, nevermind what other people may think."

You say that like it's a bad thing

[Moose Milligan]

3 minutes ago, owknows said:

You say that like it's a bad thing

 

Narcissism is a bad thing.  I know you're joking, but I find narcissism to be pretty insufferable.   

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

 

Narcissism is a bad thing.  I know you're joking, but I find narcissism to be pretty insufferable.   

[owknows]

5 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

 

Narcissism is a bad thing.  I know you're joking, but I find narcissism to be pretty insufferable.   

Narcissism as a pathology. 

Beyond insufferable.

And a lot more common than you'd think.

[Frobby]

07

JWR: I love baseball and don’t want to be THAT guy but still think that 3 1/2 hour baseball games suck.  I analogize it to movies, where I have a strong preference for movies in the 2 hour range.  Does my analogy work for you?

1:08

Kevin Goldstein: I get it. I’m fine with a 3.5 hour game if it’s 11-10 and full of drama. It’s the 4-2 3.5 hour game that’s a problem. Honestly, I think a pitch clock fixes everything in terms of game pace. I was at the biggest mess of an AFL game a couple of weeks ago. 20+ runs, tons of errors, walks all over the place, multiple mid-inning pitching changes. But also a pitch clock. Game took 3:15.

1:12

Guest: Whether it’s a game or a movie, I’m happy to watch something that’s long if it’s a good product.

1:12

Kevin Goldstein: I agree but a 4-1 game that takes 3.5 hours without much action is not a good product.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/kevin-goldstein-fangraphs-chat-11-29-2021/

[HowAboutThat]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

I agree that the inaccuracy doesn’t affect your argument that hitting is hard.  I just couldn’t let it stand though.   I couldn’t let Ty Cobb, Rogers Hornsby, Nap Lajoie, George Sisler and Shoeless Joe Jackson roll over in their graves, among others.    Even Ted himself wouldn’t like to get credit that wasn’t due.   

I think your views on what needs to be fixed are somewhat chauvinistic.   E.g., you don’t mind watching a baseball game that takes 3.5 hours to play, so to you that’s not something that needs to be fixed.   Well, there are literally millions of people who don’t watch because of the time commitment and especially the time that games end on weeknights.   And pace of play is also a huge problem that has turned off a lot of fans.  Just because those things don’t bother you doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be addressed to increase/maintain the fan base.    I’m all in favor of increasing the amount of action in the game, but if that action occurs after 11 pm Eastern, I’m probably asleep.    
 

Well I think you’ll agree, that order to fix the problem, you have to identify the problem, and length of game is not the main problem.

Frankly, I would be kind of annoyed to go to a Fergie Jenkins game, get in my seat by the second inning and an hour later I’m already heading out to the car. When I was in Boy Scouts, the scout meeting would end by 9:30 and I would be home by about 10 o’clock, the sports would come on the news about 1020 and usually by then the game was over or almost over. Which means that when I was in my teens, a baseball game was 10 minutes either side of three hours. I have no problem with a three hour game, but we’re not going to get back to a three hour game with  BS like pitch clocks, banning the shift or sticky stuff or other such useless folderol.

Also, as I have said multiple times, the time of game is not the main issue: the main issue is that walks are boring, home runs are boring, strikeouts are boring in the quantities that we are seeing. We need more action on the base paths.

It infuriates me that Instead of making meaningful progress in improving the game, they are considering useless rule changes that At best will change nothing.

And I just read that MLB is proposing a 14 team playoff. How ridiculous is that? We can’t determine a playoff field after 162 games? We have to have an extra 14 team tournament?

Maybe I’m just an old man, but I don’t think so. However, for those who do think so, let me save you some time…

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/old-man-yells-at-cloud/photos

[Camden_yardbird]

This is like saying Bezos and Musk are making money so what are Americans worried about. 

You see the big contracts, but the majority of players are seeing far less.

[HowAboutThat]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

 

Narcissism is a bad thing.  I know you're joking, but I find narcissism to be pretty insufferable.   

Me too, but that is an unfair and inaccurate way to describe my argument. 
It should be obvious that 1) nothing that has been suggested will meaningfully shorten the game 2) Increasing action on the field is the best way to maintain interest in the game, And none of the suggestions that have been made so far have  done that.

Additionally, I have shown through my own suggestions that I’m not a hidebound traditionalist, I’m perfectly willing to try new things, but the things I’m complaining about are legitimate and the failure of the suggestions that have been made so far is self evident. So you buddy

[OriolesMagic83]

14 minutes ago, Philip said:

Well I think you’ll agree, that order to fix the problem, you have to identify the problem, and length of game is not the main problem.

Frankly, I would be kind of annoyed to go to a Fergie Jenkins game, get in my seat by the second inning and an hour later I’m already heading out to the car. When I was in Boy Scouts, the scout meeting would end by 9:30 and I would be home by about 10 o’clock, the sports would come on the news about 1020 and usually by then the game was over or almost over. Which means that when I was in my teens, a baseball game was 10 minutes either side of three hours. I have no problem with a three hour game, but we’re not going to get back to a three hour game with  BS like pitch clocks, banning the shift or sticky stuff or other such useless folderol.

Also, as I have said multiple times, the time of game is not the main issue: the main issue is that walks are boring, home runs are boring, strikeouts are boring in the quantities that we are seeing. We need more action on the base paths.

It infuriates me that Instead of making meaningful progress in improving the game, they are considering useless rule changes that At best will change nothing.

And I just read that MLB is proposing a 14 team playoff. How ridiculous is that? We can’t determine a playoff field after 162 games? We have to have an extra 14 team tournament?

Maybe I’m just an old man, but I don’t think so. However, for those who do think so, let me save you some time…

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/old-man-yells-at-cloud/photos

I agree with you analysis.  Modern baseball is defined by the 3 outcomes.  Hitters try to hit home runs or take walks, if they can't, strike outs are no big deal.  I would like to get back at least part way to 70's baseball.  More doubles, more triples, and more stolen bases.  I would much rather watch that, than a bunch of guys striking out and the occasional home run.  How would this be done?  I don't know.  One of the things contributing to the home run surge was the replacement of the larger ballparks of the 60's and 70's w/ the bandboxes of today. 

[Moose Milligan]

6 minutes ago, Philip said:

Me too, but that is an unfair and inaccurate way to describe my argument. 
It should be obvious that 1) nothing that has been suggested will meaningfully shorten the game 2) Increasing action on the field is the best way to maintain interest in the game, And none of the suggestions that have been made so far have  done that.

Additionally, I have shown through my own suggestions that I’m not a hidebound traditionalist, I’m perfectly willing to try new things, but the things I’m complaining about are legitimate and the failure of the suggestions that have been made so far is self evident. So you buddy

Sorry bro, when you get on your rants sometimes it's "I, I, I, I, I"...Like Frobby said, you don't mind a 3.5 hour game, you don't feel that it needs to be fixed...yet, lots of others do.  It prohibits a lot of other people from being able to watch a whole game.

Thinking things don't need to be addressed because you don't mind them, again, like Frobby said:  Just because those things don’t bother you doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be addressed to increase/maintain the fan base.

Pace of play...is an issue.  You don't seem to think it's not because you're not bothered by it.  That would appear to be a narcissistic viewpoint.  I don't think I'm out of bounds in classifying it as such.