Should the O's be farther along offensively in their rebuild?

[Aristotelian]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

That’s one player.  No rebuild or whatever word you want to lose is made or broken from one player.

He said "and" so he is adding on to his previous post with several additional factors. 

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

He said "and" so he is adding on to his previous post with several additional factors. 

Actually, he was adding onto vab’s post that had one factor..the missed year.

But my point still stands.  

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Actually, he was adding onto vab’s post that had one factor..the missed year.

But my point still stands.  

I agree with it.   There have been plenty of teams that had strong farm systems despite getting a poor yield from 1-2 very high picks.   That said, if you are assessing where our offense is now, the delay of Kjerstad’s MiL debut and the entire system missing a year’s worth of games are certainly both highly relevant to the assessment.   Honestly, I’m not worried at all about how our offense is coming along.   I’m way more worried about our lack of pitching depth.

[Sports Guy]

15 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I agree with it.   There have been plenty of teams that had strong farm systems despite getting a poor yield from 1-2 very high picks.   That said, if you are assessing where our offense is now, the delay of Kjerstad’s MiL debut and the entire system missing a year’s worth of games are certainly both highly relevant to the assessment.   Honestly, I’m not worried at all about how our offense is coming along.   I’m way more worried about our lack of pitching depth.

There are a lot of factors we are behind…those are 2 but saying Kjerstad has missed a few years is also assuming he was going to develop at all.  You can’t assume that.

[Frobby]

18 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

There are a lot of factors we are behind…those are 2 but saying Kjerstad has missed a few years is also assuming he was going to develop at all.  You can’t assume that.

That’s fair.   

[Aristotelian]

44 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Actually, he was adding onto vab’s post that had one factor..the missed year.

But my point still stands.  

If your point is Kjerstad did not break the rebuild, everyone would agree with that. The other poster's point was that the entire system lost a year plus Kjerstad. And he had several more factors in a previous post. 

[interloper]

20 hours ago, Frobby said:

If we are behind offensively, it’s mostly because the offensive players we acquired in the 2018 sell-off have produced nothing.  Diaz, Bannon, Encarnacion, Carmona, Cumberland.  Villar is gone, Valera was quickly dropped.  

If you look at Elias’ trades, he’s gone after pitchers or very young players.   

Frankly, I’m not surprised about where we are, especially considering that there was no MiL season in 2020.   If there had been, Rutschman would be up by now, and maybe Stowers too.  Henderson would be knocking on the door.   
 

100%. To me it makes sense where we're at because we didn't have a lot to jump-start the rebuild with, right? That alone is almost entirely why anyone feels the rebuild is taking longer than it should. The other being the lack of FA spending, of course. But Elias has repeatedly mentioned the "over-extension" of the competitive window, and while to some degree that's a nice way to cover his own ass, he's not wrong at all. 

It's not very surprising that none of those prospects you mentioned have panned out because Duq was taking what he could get just make sure he got anything. IMO he did his best in that regard. But it's rough when Tate and Zimmermann are the "prize" pieces of those trades. 

So this rebuild has been like trying to gun it from 0mph with the car in 5th gear. It's been slow to accelerate because we're only going on 3 years of drafts and the bits and pieces Elias has been able to trade. If I were him, I'd trade Means I think. Maybe not this offseason, but at the deadline if he's dealing, before he comes down with his usual mid-season shoulder issue. 

[wildcard]

7 minutes ago, interloper said:

100%. To me it makes sense where we're at because we didn't have a lot to jump-start the rebuild with, right? That alone is almost entirely why anyone feels the rebuild is taking longer than it should. The other being the lack of FA spending, of course. But Elias has repeatedly mentioned the "over-extension" of the competitive window, and while to some degree that's a nice way to cover his own ass, he's not wrong at all. 

It's not very surprising that none of those prospects you mentioned have panned out because Duq was taking what he could get just make sure he got anything. IMO he did his best in that regard. But it's rough when Tate and Zimmermann are the "prize" pieces of those trades. 

So this rebuild has been like trying to gun it from 0mph with the car in 5th gear. It's been slow to accelerate because we're only going on 3 years of drafts and the bits and pieces Elias has been able to trade. If I were him, I'd trade Means I think. Maybe not this offseason, but at the deadline if he's dealing, before he comes down with his usual mid-season shoulder issue. 

I think a big reason for the offense being somewhat behind is that Santander and Hays have not been able to stay healthy.   There were suppose to be strengths of the offense but instead that are injured or playing their way back to health.  I am hoping the Stowers helps improve this situation in 2022.

[interloper]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

I think a big reason for the offense being somewhat behind is that Santander and Hays have not been able to stay healthy.   There were suppose to be strengths of the offense but instead that are injured or playing their way back to health.  I am hoping the Stowers helps improve this situation in 2022.

For sure. I was probably speaking more in terms of the farm system. But yeah, it's telling that we all got excited about Hays' .769 OPS in 488 AB... 

[Frobby]

29 minutes ago, interloper said:

For sure. I was probably speaking more in terms of the farm system. But yeah, it's telling that we all got excited about Hays' .769 OPS in 488 AB... 

Hays’ .769 OPS did not really excite me.   I was excited by his strong finish, and by his good defense, resulting in 3.1 rWAR for the year.   If he puts up a .769 OPS again this year, I’ll be disappointed.   He’s got more talent than that IMO.  

[emmett16]

I don’t think anyone has mentioned the Mancini situation.  He lost 2020 and came back a shell of himself in 2021.  That impacted the offense significantly.  It also ruined one of Elias’ better potential trade chips.  The entire situation was a blow to their offensive production & the overall team assets.  How often does your #1 draft pick and most productive offensive player go down with non-baseball related injuries in the same year? 

[wildcard]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Hays’ .769 OPS did not really excite me.   I was excited by his strong finish, and by his good defense, resulting in 3.1 rWAR for the year.   If he puts up a .769 OPS again this year, I’ll be disappointed.   He’s got more talent than that IMO.  

Its not his talent level that is the problem.  Its his ability to stay healthy.   He had a core injury in 2021 that affect him for most of the season.   How did he get it?  Diving for a ball.   Diving is a big part of this game but his body gets beat up in the  process.

[wildcard]

4 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

I don’t think anyone has mentioned the Mancini situation.  He lost 2020 and came back a shell of himself in 2021.  That impacted the offense significantly.  It also ruined one of Elias’ better potential trade chips.  The entire situation was a blow to their offensive production & the overall team assets.  How often does your #1 draft pick and most productive offensive player go down with non-baseball related injuries in the same year? 

I agree that Mancini's 2nd half hurt the offense.

[sportsfan8703]

5 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

There are a lot of factors we are behind…those are 2 but saying Kjerstad has missed a few years is also assuming he was going to develop at all.  You can’t assume that.

Kjerstad was the #2 pick in the draft. I think it’s fair to assume he was going to develop. 
 

And how are we behind?

We have a 30/30 CF. How many teams can say that? AR is the best prospect in baseball, oh and he plays catcher.  Mountcastle just hit 33 HR as a 24 yo. Hays is on the verge of breaking out. Mancini was coming off having cancer. Santander just can’t stay healthy. 
 

It’s hard for an organization to recover when they lose plus or plus plus players at SS and 2B. 
 

We actually have done fairly well with our waiver wire pickups and stop gap FA signings. Galvis and Iglesias both put up good numbers offensively. So did Alberto for a short period. So did Nunez. 
 

This “author” of the article in the OP is just way off base. Especially when factoring in losing a season of milb due to COVID. 
 

This “article” that was written would be like I tried to evaluate the Tigers.