Free agency thread

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, Camden_yardbird said:

$30 million is never an acceptable payroll.

It's not an acceptable product for which you should expect to pay money for.

Its fails to use resources provided by MLB (revenue sharing or media $) to take any sort of short term risk to get ahead. 

 

I wouldn't say never.  Thirty million would have been an acceptable payroll in 1991.

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

I've never bought into the idea that Elias was in a position to dictate to ownership how things were going to go if he accepted the job.

 

Elias’ plan and way to build gels perfectly with what the team wants.  As great a hire as Elias was, he probably represented a candidate who didn’t care about winning anytime soon And ownership  loved that idea.

[geschinger]

6 minutes ago, Camden_yardbird said:

$30 million is never an acceptable payroll.

It's not an acceptable product for which you should expect to pay money for.

Its fails to use resources provided by MLB (revenue sharing or media $) to take any sort of short term risk to get ahead. 

What does short term risk to get ahead mean?  Spend $60-70 million and win and additional 15-20 games? What would that have accomplished other than putting the team further away from long term success?  Those 15-20 extra wins would have significantly reduced the draft pool the team has had available to work with to add talent and rebuild the farm system.  

[Sports Guy]

30 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Just subscribed to the Athletic (they are currently running a 6-month promo at $1/month) and listened to Keith Law’s podcast from last Monday.   He’s against teams not trying to win but basically said he’d make an exception in the Orioles’ case and thinks Elias is doing what he should be doing.

Law is wrong a lot 

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Elias’ plan and way to build gels perfectly with what the team wants.  As great a hire as Elias was, he probably represented a candidate who didn’t care winning anytime And ownership  loved that idea.

Most candidates would go along with whatever their potential employer wanted to do.

 

[Camden_yardbird]

36 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Just subscribed to the Athletic (they are currently running a 6-month promo at $1/month) and listened to Keith Law’s podcast from last Monday.   He’s against teams not trying to win but basically said he’d make an exception in the Orioles’ case and thinks Elias is doing what he should be doing.

Why does he make that exception for just the Orioles?

[geschinger]

10 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Elias’ plan and way to build gels perfectly with what the team wants.  As great a hire as Elias was, he probably represented a candidate who didn’t care winning anytime And ownership  loved that idea.

What in Elias background makes you believe he is someone who doesn't care to win anytime?   Do you think he was part of a World Series win and thought that sucked, let me go somewhere else where I can make sure I never have to go through that again?

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, geschinger said:

What in Elias background makes you believe he is someone who doesn't care to win anytime?   Do you think he was part of a World Series win and thought that sucked, let me go somewhere else where I can make sure I never have to go through that again?

I mean to say anytime soon.

[Can_of_corn]

10 minutes ago, Camden_yardbird said:

Why does he make that exception for just the Orioles?

Because Elias comes from a scouting background, like Law.

[Can_of_corn]

9 minutes ago, geschinger said:

What in Elias background makes you believe he is someone who doesn't care to win anytime?   Do you think he was part of a World Series win and thought that sucked, let me go somewhere else where I can make sure I never have to go through that again?

I think he caught wind of the storm that was about to hit the Astros front office and wanted out.

He also of course wanted the promotion, more notoriety, more power, more money.  It was a big step up.

[Sports Guy]

24 minutes ago, geschinger said:

What does short term risk to get ahead mean?  Spend $60-70 million and win and additional 15-20 games? What would that have accomplished other than putting the team further away from long term success?  Those 15-20 extra wins would have significantly reduced the draft pool the team has had available to work with to add talent and rebuild the farm system.  

I find it interesting that people casually throw away the idea of winning an extra 20 games.

If you are building something positive and can win 75+ games, I would easily rather have that than a chance to draft Creed Willems in the 8th round or whatever. It’s not even a decision.

[Beysbol]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think he caught wind of the storm that was about to hit the Astros front office and wanted out.

He also of course wanted the promotion, more notoriety, more power, more money.  It was a big step up.

I always thought the same about the cheating and he wanted to get the heck outta there. Also, I totally agree. 30 million would be acceptable in 1991 and not in 2022. Like I always say, I'll believe it when I see it (regarding spending and winning). This is why I go for another team besides the Orioles (Tampa).

[seak05]

The orioles could have spent 30m this winter and they'd still be predicted to finish last in the AL east by a lot. To be competitive they'd have to have bought most of a ML roster this offseason. I want to see the Orioles win, but I don't need them to spend money to lose. Theoretically and hopefully, you'll start to see real talented players emerge from the minors this year. At that point they should start to spend to supplement ie if you have Means, Rodriguez, Hall, you can get one more starter, and a couple bullpen guys

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Beysbol said:

I always thought the same about the cheating and he wanted to get the heck outta there. Also, I totally agree. 30 million would be acceptable in 1991 and not in 2022. Like I always say, I'll believe it when I see it (regarding spending and winning). This is why I go for another team besides the Orioles (Tampa).

I can't root for Tampa, I know too much about the owner.

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, seak05 said:

The orioles could have spent 30m this winter and they'd still be predicted to finish last in the AL east by a lot. 
 

So?  As long as they kept with the long term plan, why is that a bad thing?  Why is it bad that they put a product on the field that’s good?  Why is it bad that they bring in players who could help those young prospects?