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Connolly looks at why Elias signed Lyles

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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3 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

I'm not going back right now to see how we acquired Kevin Brown, Scott Erickson, Jimmy Key and David Wells, and I know the financials are different now than they used to be, but we do have a history of getting big time pitchers into Baltimore.

Brown signed a one-year deal with the O's after going 7-9, 4.82 with the Rangers in '94.

They traded for Erickson (for Kimera Bartee and Scott Klingenbeck) midway through 1995 when he was 4-6, 5.95 for the Twins.

Key was mostly injured in '95, went 12-11, 4.68 for the Yanks in '96 then signed a two-year deal with the Orioles.

Wells was acquired from the Reds in a trade for Curtis Goodwin and Trovin Valdez.

Sid Fernandez signed with the O's after going 5-6, 2.93 in 18 starts with the Mets in '93.

When they signed Rick Sutcliffe he was 35, coming off a 6-5 season in 18 starts for the Cubs.

Fernando had been out of the majors for the better part of two years when the O's signed him.

Jamie Moyer went 10-8, 2.86 for the Toledo Mud Hens before signing with Baltimore.

They signed Randy Myers after he led the NL with 38 saves with the Reds in '95.

If the O's ever signed a top free agent starter at or near his peak I think it would be the first time.

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Frobby
Frobby

The premise seems to be that you have to choose between pitchers who are healthy and pitchers that are good.  But I’ve heard that it is possible for a pitcher to be both.   

MurphDogg
MurphDogg

In 2004 the Orioles signed a 27-year-old starter coming off a 17 win season with a 118 ERA+ over 216 innings to a 3 year contract.

Flash- bd
Flash- bd

Never overestimate the self-awareness of a professional athlete. 

DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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2 minutes ago, interloper said:

Mussina? If he was hurt it wasn't a whole lot. 

 

In 1993 he didn't pitch from June 22 to July 2nd, and then again from July 21st to August 20th, and not after September 15th.

In 1998 he only pitched three times from April 17th through June 5th.

In 2004 he didn't pitch from July 7th though August 18th.

In 2005 he didn't pitch from August 30th until September 22nd.

In 2007 he didn't pitch from April 12th through May 2nd.

That's an extremely healthy pitcher.  Someone who only misses 3-4 weeks worth of starts every few years.

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spiritof66 Hangout Grand Counsel

spiritof66

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Isn't every pitcher a medical gamble, to use Elias' phrase? Does the fact Lyles has (I think) avoided serious injury for ten years and has thrown a high number of innings in some years (including 2021, when he ranked sixth in the AL) mean he's likely to avoid injury this year? I just don't know. Guys around his age (31) sometimes fall off a cliff performance-wise. Is the same true of the ability to pitch a lot of innings without getting hurt?

While there's nothing surprising here (other than maybe Elias' candor), I still find it slightly depressing to see him confirm that the Orioles signed its largest free-agent contract under Elias with (and made its second highest-paid active player) a guy who was acquired not to help the team win ballgames, but just to reduce the workload on young pitchers. I can't recall seeing that combination before.

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Moshagge3 Hangout Grand Counsel

Moshagge3

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I don't like his use of the word "cycle", as I was previously assured by him that this phase was a one-off, in order to clear out the rubble of past incompetence and create a pipeline of elite talent that would sustain itself unto eternity. But actually we're going to lose 110 games every seven or eight years now?

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OsFanSinceThe80s Hangout Grand Counsel

OsFanSinceThe80s

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46 minutes ago, NelsonCruuuuuz said:

Yep. Eats innings, that’s it. Still a huge overpay and head scratcher but it is what it is. 

You wouldn’t pay that much money for the 2021 version of Matt Harvey and there’s a good chance that will be one of the best comps for Lyles this season. 

I hope Lyles surprises and pitches 150 innings while looking the part of a competent 4/5 starting pitcher. 

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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2 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

You know that anybody can get the Spanish flu or Ebola (named for the river) or Lyme (Connecticut) disease?

Right, next you are going to tell me that humans can get the Swine Flu or Mad Cow disease. 

Go sell it to someone else buster.

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BRobinsonfan All-Star

BRobinsonfan

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7 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

What you wonder is, if those innings are crappy, will they keep him in games anyway?

Like, do you just look past mediocre and bad performances to just get the innings to save the young arms?  
 

He will obviously have some good starts and some just ok starts.  Those you keep him in as long as possible but what about the bad starts.  
 

It will be interesting to see if they just keep him out there often to protect arms.  

This could spawn a whole new pitching speciality.  Instead of LOOGY he could be a HIMER G.  (High Inning Many Earned Runs Guy).  

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oriole Veteran All-Star

oriole

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3 hours ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

You wouldn’t pay that much money for the 2021 version of Matt Harvey and there’s a good chance that will be one of the best comps for Lyles this season. 

I hope Lyles surprises and pitches 150 innings while looking the part of a competent 4/5 starting pitcher. 

150 innings would have led the club last year. If he can match his 180 innings from last year then he far out performs any other pitcher. He is being paid a premium for this reason only. 
 

The conspiracy theorist in me still thinks it was to save face going into the lockout but there’s no way to ever prove that.

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MurphDogg Hangout Grand Counsel

MurphDogg

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9 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

If the O's ever signed a top free agent starter at or near his peak I think it would be the first time.

In 2004 the Orioles signed a 27-year-old starter coming off a 17 win season with a 118 ERA+ over 216 innings to a 3 year contract.

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