07/26/22 Roster Moves: Terrin Vavra is called up from Norfolk (MLB debut) and Arauz to the IL

[PHRESH]

The Odor love in this thread is pretty amusing. I get that he's an emotional leader on the team, but to WANT him in the starting lineup over a prospect who may be able to help on the field is just crazy to me. 

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, bpilktree said:

it doesn't look like he wants to stack righties together so Odor goes in the middle of 2 righties then 2 righties.  Many times managers try not to stack one side of the plate in a row.  

This may be the thinking.   That said, Odor has batted 7th or 8th for 14 consecutive games.   There’s probably a specific reason he’s batting 6th tonight.  I have no idea what the reason is.   

[Tony-OH]

This all starts to remind me of Mike Hargrove. He was notorious for doing this. 

As much as I'm not a fan of robo managers like Cash, I really don't like managers who play veterans who have proven they are not good for a significant time over rookies because they are rookies.

[Tony-OH]

1 minute ago, PHRESH said:

The Odor love in this thread is pretty amusing. I get that he's an emotional leader on the team, but to WANT him in the starting lineup over a prospect who may be able to help on the field is just crazy to me. 

It's the fan boy and girl thing. They love the guys that jump around and put on homer necklaces and they think wow, this guy is so important to the team winning. I don't think any of that matters. What mattes is putting the best nine guys on the field and you don't bring up a prospect and sit him on the bench when you are starting a well below average major leaguer because he's a good clubhouse guy.

I'm enjoying the Orioles winning as much as the next guy, but I look at the bigger picture. Don't bury prospects in favor of veternosity driven players. 

[wildcard]

3 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Not sure what world you live in where the present is better with a below replacement level player playing everyday. 

If Hyde thinks the team is better playing the veteran who in everyday is below average, then he's not the manager of the future of here for sure because he's playing the invisible veternosity move over the better player because he happens to be a rookie. 

Odor:

rWAR: -0.1
fWAR: 0.0
wOBa: .280 (MLB Avg .302)
xwOBa: .270 so he's actually been lucky to be as bad as he's been
OAA: -5
Batting/base running combined (fan graphs): -7.6

Yep, definitely the guy a contender should be playing everyday.



 

14-6 in July. And Odor is right in the middle of it.   I don't think Elias/Hyde want to disrupt a winner.   Its getting more and more interesting what Elias does with Mancini at the deadline.

Baseball more than most sports in not always about the stats.   Dempsey, Dauer and Todd Cruz were not the best offensive players but they helped the O's win the World Series.

[TheWall]

Not really sure how starting Odor is a move for "the present". When I watch most games - I assume that's a free out (because it usually is). I don't mind having him on the roster for now and I appreciate what he's done to help build a winning culture in the clubhouse, but Vavra deserves a look. If we actually start to make a run and look like a playoff team in September - I can't imagine a scenario where we should be starting Odor over one of Vavra, Westburg or Henderson. 

[Fiver6565]

3 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I'm not crushing Hyde, I just think it's worrisome. When managers get too close to their players they start playing their favorite veterans instead of the better player. 

Now maybe the Orioles have decided that Vavra is just a bench player and then I get it, but I have hard time looking at what Odor has done this year and what Vavra has done in AAA and think why not give him a shot. Odor is the only weak link in the starting lineup right now and they have a potential replacement on the roster.

All fair points, I just think its too soon for it to be worrisome.  Another couple of games and I'll mostly agree.  The Stowers thing he played half the games he was up for, I don't see the concern there.

 

Although I think on this board, veteran presence tends to get belittled a little more than it should.  I don't think its valueless to have (and play) guys like Odor.  But that being said, I want to see Vavra as much as the next guy.

[Frobby]

Just now, Tony-OH said:

This all starts to remind me of Mike Hargrove. He was notorious for doing this. 

As much as I'm not a fan of robo managers like Cash, I really don't like managers who play veterans who have proven they are not good for a significant time over rookies because they are rookies.

Well, we will see how this evolves over time.  Two games is not “a significant time” — I assume you agree with that.  I think what we’ll see is Vavra will be eased in and then we’ll see how he does, both offensively and defensively.   The better he plays, the more he’ll play.   But he’ll need to show he’s an upgrade.   I don’t think this is a situation where the team will play him 15 out of 20 games no matter how he does, like it was with Adley.

[ChuckS]

Not sure what to think here other than I guess they feel Vavra’s not a good enough prospect to supplant a guy with no long term future on the team who is hitting .197.

I don’t know how much power Elias has over lineups/playing time but this is a situation he might need to step in if it’s a Hyde decision. 

[Tony-OH]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

14-6 in July. And Odor is right in the middle of it.   I don't think Elias/Hyde want to disrupt a winner.   Its getting more and more interesting what Elias does with Mancini at the deadline.

Baseball more than most sports in not always about the stats.   Dempsey, Dauer and Todd Cruz were not the best offensive players but they helped the O's win the World Series.

The team is 39-46 when Odor plays. 10-2 when he doesn't. How good could they be if they weren't running out a below replacement level player?

 

[TheWall]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

14-6 in July. And Odor is right in the middle of it.   I don't think Elias/Hyde want to disrupt a winner.   Its getting more and more interesting what Elias does with Mancini at the deadline.

Baseball more than most sports in not always about the stats.   Dempsey, Dauer and Todd Cruz were not the best offensive players but they helped the O's win the World Series.

I would argue that baseball is actually more about the stats then most sports. Outcomes are way more limited. 

[wildcard]

14 minutes ago, bpilktree said:

it doesn't look like he wants to stack righties together so Odor goes in the middle of 2 righties then 2 righties.  Many times managers try not to stack one side of the plate in a row.  

Odor is a lefty.  Vavra is a lefty.   That is not the reason they are playing Odor over Vavra.

Edited July 27, 2022 by wildcard

[forphase1]

13 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Well you have your opinion and I have mine.   You are all about the future and I am about the present.   Especially with the O's driving for a playoff spot.   Hyde has them thinking they can make the playoffs.    They are playing like they believe they can.   I am right with them.

I'm for both.  Replacing Odors bat is better for our present AND our future IMO.  I've rarely seen so many good,  reasonable posters adamantly defending such a poor hitter.  Talk all you want about chemistry, veteran presence, good cheerleader, etc.  At the end of the day Odor is a below replacement level player and should be replaced at the earliest reasonable opportunity.  That just happens to possibly be now. 

[wildcard]

10 minutes ago, PHRESH said:

The Odor love in this thread is pretty amusing. I get that he's an emotional leader on the team, but to WANT him in the starting lineup over a prospect who may be able to help on the field is just crazy to me. 

14-6

[PHRESH]

It's too bad Nevin has no charisma. He could be a regular starter.