O's Fans Held Hostage - Day 18

[Lucky Jim]

But after our big 3, it is a bunch of good arms but not starting pitchers in all likelihood...It is why I have said that I have no worries about the future of the bullpen.

It is also probably why they drafted Matusz.

SG - I think this is ALWAYS the case with prospects. Every pitcher beyond every teams' first three pitching prospects is more likely to be a reliever than a starter. That's just the way it is.

By the way, Goldstein remains high on Erbe.

[wildcard]

Based on scouts' opinions of Hernandez I don't think he could have done better.

I still would not call it a decent return. Ramon will be motivated to make the trade look bad. I think he has enough left to do just that.

[RShack]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't we give Wieters the 2nd highest signing bonus in MLB history?

Could be, not sure. Wouldn't surprise me, but I really don't remember.

IIRC, it was $6M-something. Which is way less than the "$10M... $15M... whatever it takes... just get it done!" that SG recommended at the time.

[Fairfax Bird]

I still would not call it a decent return. Ramon will be motivated to make the trade look bad. I think he has enough left to do just that.

Well then he should be doubly ashamed of tanking it the last two seasons. Either he tanked it or he is severly on the downside and will give the Reds very little.

[wildcard]

You know who are the important players in this organization?

Patton, Olson and Spoone.

Those are the only other 3 guys, assuming health, that I feel can be starting pitchers in the majors...Erbe has a chance but I think it is still too early to tell with him.

But those 3 guys are HUGE for the long term of this team.

I agree this those 4 and I would add Albers, D Hernandez, Liz, Bergesen and Berken. I am not giving up on any of these guys. They just need time to develop and opportunities when they are ready. They will get knock around for a while but some of them will make it.

[Crazysilver03]

I still would not call it a decent return. Ramon will be motivated to make the trade look bad. I think he has enough left to do just that.

If he has that much left, I am glad he isnt here anymore if he didnt have the motivation to play hard. I can only think of $9.5M reasons why he should.

[wildcard]

Well then he should be doubly ashamed of tanking it the last two seasons. Either he tanked it or he is severly on the downside and will give the Reds very little.

I haven't seem to many major leaguers that are ashamed to take money. There is not question that Ramon took a physical beating the last two years. I think that hurt him. However I also think he is the kind of player that just folds on a losing team after they are out of it. Kind of like "Why should I take this beating in meaningless games." Shameful? Maybe. But that kind of player is also motivated by a contract year.

By the way, the O's knew the kind of player he was before they sign him. He did not block the plate in San Diego either. That did stop him from getting a big contract from the O's. He will probably have a good year and get any decent contract for a couple of years.

[wildcard]

If he has that much left, I am glad he isnt here anymore if he didnt have the motivation to play hard. I can only think of $9.5M reasons why he should.

Oh, I wanted him traded. I just thought that MacPhail should have done better then give 5.5M for Freel. That's as bad a paying Payton 5m last year.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Oh, I wanted him traded. I just thought that MacPhail should have done better then give 5.5M for Freel. That's as bad a paying Payton 5m last year.

Meh. We got some prospects back, too. And at least Freel will play hard.

[Crazysilver03]

Oh, I wanted him traded. I just thought that MacPhail should have done better then give 5.5M for Freel. That's as bad a paying Payton 5m last year.

I dont think MacPhail could have done better.

The Reds were the only ones to express interest and have an opening still, but they had monetary issues.

Freel, while overpaid, isn't as bad as people make him out to be. On the brightside, his contract is up after this season. It isn't like we couldnt take on his salary for this season.

[wildcard]

Meh. We got some prospects back, too. And at least Freel will play hard.

Listen Freel is a good utility player that is probably worth 2.5 to 3M. If Roberts is traded he could become the starting 2b. However he has not been ability to stay healthy. Its hard to earn your money of the DL.

The O's are going to pay Freel 4m this year. The O's sent some where between 2 to 3 in cash with Ramon. On the low side that's 6m for Freel and two minor leaguers that are question marks to ever make the majors. So if you say the two minor leaguers are worth 500k, then that is 5.5M for Freel which is too much. Not a decent deal IMO.

[RShack]

Listen Freel is a good utility player that is probably worth 2.5 to 3M. If Roberts is traded he could become the starting 2b. However he has not been ability to stay healthy. Its hard to earn your money of the DL.

The O's are going to pay Freel 4m this year. The O's sent some where between 2 to 3 in cash with Ramon. On the low side that's 6m for Freel and two minor leaguers that are question marks to ever make the majors. So if you say the two minor leaguers are worth 500k, then that is 5.5M for Freel which is too much. Not a decent deal IMO.

Could be.

But at least I won't have to yell at the TV about Ramon's C-habits anymore.

Plus, how many teams wanted Ramon? We realy don't know, but I'm guessing the answer is "not many".

So, when you say "not a decent deal", that begs the question, "Compared to what?"

Which is what's impossible to know about deals like this...

[wildcard]

While there is a fair amount of talk about MacPhail bashing in this thread, and I didn't like the Ramon deal. I still have a lot of faith in Andy's approach.

The O's don't have to spend a lot of money to improve. They can draft while signing and trading for lower cost players. Building a core of young players the way Tampa did. SG says it takes too long. And he is right. After 10 losing seasons when Andy arrived, any more losing is too much.

However, it is a proven approach if a team drafts and develops players well. If two more years of losing means a 5-10 year run of winning, I will sign up for that.

The Tejada and Bedard trades for 10 players earned Andy some time IMO. Certainly until April.

These next three months are Andy's time to shine. I think the O's will see more changes like last year. I still have faith.

[wildcard]

Ok

I am willing to call the Ramon trade:

"one that MacPhail had to make" or

" the best MacPhail was going to find"

However it still does not qualify as a "decent trade" IMO.

[allstar1579]

I don't feel held hostage. I finally got that slap in the mouth I needed to cancel my season tickets and use that money for more constructive purposes, like a newborn and vacation. I feel kinda free.