O's Fans Held Hostage - Day 18

[PaulBako]

Oh, I agree. Ramon had wore out his welcome with the O's. It was time to trade him. I just think MacPhail should have gotten more.

If he couldn't then I just have to accept it as a below value trade that he had to make. I just objective to it being called a good or decent trade.

Should have gotten more?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=4097

That was a great deal for this guy.

[tvdoc]

No, we don't. We need to sign one guy to eat innings. Let the kids go out and pitch.

Guthrie

FA (Kawakami, hopefully)

Olson

Albers

Penn

If someone needs to be replaced, you have Hernandez, Bergesen, Berken in AAA who are all going to be ML ready by June, IMO. You laso have Waters and Bass who can start if needed. I really want to keep Liz in the pen, but would still rather see him start than Redding/Hendrickson. I think Patton, Arrieta, and Tillman could be ready by the AS Break.

Penn can't win in AAA,how in the world is he going to win in AL East?

[Crazysilver03]

Penn can't win in AAA,how in the world is he going to win in AL East?

Penn is out of options so he has to remain on the major league team to begin the season.

It is sink or swim time.

[SrMeowMeow]

Certainly not a trade that deserves our praise IMO.

What was wrong with the trade? We lost salary and added prospects. People were talking about just buying out Ramon to get him off the team, this is clearly better than that. I think looking back at the expectations for the return on a Ramon trade would be instructive; I'll see if I can find anything in old threads.

[Sports Guy]

What was wrong with the trade? We lost salary and added prospects. People were talking about just buying out Ramon to get him off the team, this is clearly better than that. I think looking back at the expectations for the return on a Ramon trade would be instructive; I'll see if I can find anything in old threads.

I felt he had better value than most of the people on here.

I would have liked to have seen them save more money or at least get a better player back.

I want to see what they do with the catching situation before I truly judge this though.

[The Rick]

I felt he had better value than most of the people on here.

I would have liked to have seen them save more money or at least get a better player back.

I want to see what they do with the catching situation before I truly judge this though.

You thought that, but clearly AM did not. And he knows a little bit more about these types of things than any of us.

Teams weren't beating the doors down at the warehouse to try and trade for Ramon Hernandez.

As Crstoner says, a player is worth what you pay him. In this case, Ramon was worth what we got for him. With AM, i'm confident we couldn't have done any better.

[SrMeowMeow]

I felt he had better value than most of the people on here.

I would have liked to have seen them save more money or at least get a better player back.

I want to see what they do with the catching situation before I truly judge this though.

Fair enough. I just think that AM probably has a better handle on Ramon's value. That's not intended as a knock on your intelligence or baseball knowledge, just that he's the one who's actually been shopping Ramon around. My problem with the trade is that adding a one year catcher like Zaun may actually mean we're spending more in 2009 (Freel + new C + the couple mil we ate), but since it looks like we won't have a big-name FA to try to fit into the budget, I don't think a million one way or the other really matters. On the other hand, we got back two prospects, one (Turner) who seems to have some promise and is a MIF.

I think it's funny that Freel will be making more than Izturis, though.

[Wind Rider]

If you could do a regression analysis on what MacPhail has done, using all the data, you would find the model for reducing payroll to return to the top of the income chart has a much better fit than the rebuilding model.

[Sports Guy]

Fair enough. I just think that AM probably has a better handle on Ramon's value. That's not intended as a knock on your intelligence or baseball knowledge, just that he's the one who's actually been shopping Ramon around. My problem with the trade is that adding a one year catcher like Zaun may actually mean we're spending more in 2009 (Freel + new C + the couple mil we ate), but since it looks like we won't have a big-name FA to try to fit into the budget, I don't think a million one way or the other really matters. On the other hand, we got back two prospects, one (Turner) who seems to have some promise and is a MIF.

I think it's funny that Freel will be making more than Izturis, though.

No, I agree with you...Bigbird said AM tried to get Frazier and the Reds said no....I am assuming AM did a good job of shopping him around everywhere and felt this was the best deal he could get.

My issue is exactly what you laid out, in terms of salary and things like that. To me, keeping Ramon around for 2-3 months and then dealing him when you bring Wieters up may have been the better way to go.

Ultimately, it is whatever...In other words, it doesn't matter...Its not like if we had saved 7 million on his salary that we would have put more money out there for Tex or something like that.

I still say its not a move that I would praise AM about though...It wasn't that big of a deal for him to find a taker for a good offensive catcher in a market where catching stinks.

Its just one of those "whatever" moves.

[bigbird]

No, I agree with you...Bigbird said AM tried to get Frazier and the Reds said no....I am assuming AM did a good job of shopping him around everywhere and felt this was the best deal he could get.

My issue is exactly what you laid out, in terms of salary and things like that. To me, keeping Ramon around for 2-3 months and then dealing him when you bring Wieters up may have been the better way to go.

Ultimately, it is whatever...In other words, it doesn't matter...Its not like if we had saved 7 million on his salary that we would have put more money out there for Tex or something like that.

I still say its not a move that I would praise AM about though...It wasn't that big of a deal for him to find a taker for a good offensive catcher in a market where catching stinks.

Its just one of those "whatever" moves.

We did ok in the Ramon deal as long as Wieters sees Baltimore soon. Krivsky played a big part in brokering this deal and selected the prospects. I believe the one kid had a great AFL season. There were no other takers for Ramon and we needed to get on this asap or be left holing the sack. This was a good deal by the front office. We need a dozen more:D

[SrMeowMeow]

If you could do a regression analysis on what MacPhail has done, using all the data, you would find the model for reducing payroll to return to the top of the income chart has a much better fit than the rebuilding model.

I don't know what that means but it sounds interesting. Could you elaborate?

[The Rick]

I don't know what that means but it sounds interesting. Could you elaborate?

He can elaborate if he wants, but what I think he meant is that AM is doing a much better job at reducing payroll than rebuilding the team.

[SrMeowMeow]

He can elaborate if he wants, but what I think he meant is that AM is doing a much better job at reducing payroll than rebuilding the team.

Oh damn, that's less exciting. I see it now though, the sentence just confused me. I don't really agree, he's only traded veterans for prospects and never the other way around, and we only have so many tradeable chips to move. The Bradford deal (so far) is the only outlier that was just a salary dump without any youth coming back, in my opinion.

[Lucky Jim]

No, I agree with you...Bigbird said AM tried to get Frazier and the Reds said no....I am assuming AM did a good job of shopping him around everywhere and felt this was the best deal he could get.

My issue is exactly what you laid out, in terms of salary and things like that. To me, keeping Ramon around for 2-3 months and then dealing him when you bring Wieters up may have been the better way to go.

Ultimately, it is whatever...In other words, it doesn't matter...Its not like if we had saved 7 million on his salary that we would have put more money out there for Tex or something like that.

I still say its not a move that I would praise AM about though...It wasn't that big of a deal for him to find a taker for a good offensive catcher in a market where catching stinks.

Its just one of those "whatever" moves.

Well, heck, you thought the Bedard trade was a "whatever" move. No? I'd hardly think this would surpass that trade.

[Wind Rider]

Regression analysis is a statistical tool used to develop mathematical models from a number of data points. In effect you are trying to find the line which goes through the data best. Obviously what MacPhail has done is not represented by mathematical points. I am saying that if you look at what he's done it matches the model of reducing payroll to increase income better than it fits the rebuilding model. Like regression analysis all you can say is it fits the data better, we don't know what his actual model is really. More data points will give more insight, but won't guarentee what they are doing.