O's Fans Held Hostage - Day 18

[Lucky Jim]

But that would mean that certain people who routinely post on here have a hidden agenda - and we know that can't possibly be true.

No. Say it ain't so, 1970.

[wildcard]

The only thing really at stake here is Angelos' income.

If Angelos wants to continue to lose more and more profits from gate reciepts, then by all mean he can let MacPhail continue to drag out the rebuilding process by only making one or two moves a year and further drive the Orioles fanbase away in droves...

But eventually that money bin won't be deep enough for Peter to dive into anymore and that's when he'll put the pressure on MacPhail to speed things up one would hope...

What you may not be accounting for is a $30M drop in salaries. This team was almost 70M last year. By the beginning for 2010 season this team is likely to be less then 40M. Mora's contract expires, Roberts traded for youth, Huff gone one way or another. Ramon already gone and they are probably not paying Freel 4M a year unless he becomes the everyday 2B.

Just watch it. This team is going where Tampa was. I am not saying they will stay there, but they is a reason that Izturis is the only guy that is signed in 2010.

[Palmer Esque]

I think this is only high-risk/high-reward if you think that he's counting on only Tillman, Arrieta, and Matusz.

I think the pitchers individually are moderate-to-high risk. But AM is working on numbers: sleepers (Britton, Bundy, Drake); guys coming off injuries with ML stuff (Spoone, Patton); guys with great stuff but a single issue (Erbe, Hernandez); average stuff guys with a singular outstanding trait (Bergesen); and just "pitchers" (Berken, Olson).

He's diversifying his risk. It's really not the end of the world if all of our "Big Three" don't pan out. We've got a lot of shots t filling out our staff behind them. Some of those guys will surprise.

Good analysis.

This created an image in my head of AM sitting in an office with a head set on and 100 computers monitoring the stock market Mad Money style...

[Sports Guy]

Luke Scott (FA 2011), Matt Albers (FA 2012), and Adam Jones (FA 2013) say hi.

Yea, you are right...Playoffs here we come.

We have Albers and Scott!

That ought to scare the Sox, Yanks and Rays.

[Lucky Jim]

The problem is, this is where we have rested our fate for the last several years.

Now, don't get me wrong...I am all about developing pitching..It is a great idea.

The problem is, we don't have enough depth and talent. We need much much more.

I continue to believe that many people on here really don't get how far behind the 8 ball we are. I have believed that for years on here because we have heard so many times that we are on the verge...We aren't even close to being on the verge.

I would say we don't currently have enough ML-level talent at SP. I think we are in very good shape organizationally, as far as SP goes.

I would agree that we're woefully lacking in breadth and depth of position prospects.

[Palmer Esque]

The problem is, this is where we have rested our fate for the last several years.

Now, don't get me wrong...I am all about developing pitching..It is a great idea.

The problem is, we don't have enough depth and talent. We need much much more.

I continue to believe that many people on here really don't get how far behind the 8 ball we are. I have believed that for years on here because we have heard so many times that we are on the verge...We aren't even close to being on the verge.

I think this is correct and incorrect.

Pitching wise, while at the ML level, we are not there. But there are not too many systems in baseball with such an abundance of high quality arms that we have.

In regards to postition players, Markakis, Jones, and Wieters are a great start, but in this regards, yes we are behind, especially in the Minors.

But getting the pitching on par first is the most important step, and one that I feel we are on the right path on.

[Crazysilver03]

Yea, you are right...Playoffs here we come.

We have Albers and Scott!

That ought to scare the Sox, Yanks and Rays.

Thank you Mr. Sarcasm.

Can you take any point without sighting it?

We have three players that were able to immediately join the major league team in 2008 and become part of a core of players, with Markakis and Guthrie being the two other key components on the major league team.

That gives us a solid base to build on for the present and the long term, since they are all far from FA.

[Sports Guy]

I would say we don't currently have enough ML-level talent at SP. I think we are in very good shape organizationally, as far as SP goes.

I would agree that we're woefully lacking in breadth and depth of position prospects.

We don't have nearly enough depth in STARTING pitching prospects...Most of our players are likely future relievers.

[Sports Guy]

Thank you Mr. Sarcasm.

Can you take any point without sighting it?

We have three players that were able to immediately join the major league team in 2008 and become part of a core of players, with Markakis and Guthrie being the two other key components on the major league team.

That gives us a solid base to build on for the present and the long term, since they are all far from FA.

Our base is based on 6 players right now...Albers and Scott aren't them.

[Lucky Jim]

We don't have nearly enough depth in STARTING pitching prospects...Most of our players are likely future relievers.

This is the case with all but the BEST pitching prospects.

You're looking at this in the wrong way. None of our big 3 are "likely" relievers. So, we have that. All of our SP prospects on the other side of them may not pan out as ML-level starters and thus end up as relievers. This is the case with almost all MiL SP prospects.

But out of that number of SP prospects, there is a very strong chance that we'll find one or two ML starters.

That's how you project. While their baseline might be relief pitcher, they all may end up being starting pitchers. That's why you stockpile pitching prospects.

It's very very hard to stockpile pitchers who are guaranteed to be ML starting pitchers.

[Palmer Esque]

We don't have nearly enough depth in STARTING pitching prospects...Most of our players are likely future relievers.

I think you will be surprised when these guys arrive.

[Fairfax Bird]

Our base is based on 6 players right now...Albers and Scott aren't them.

If Albers is healthy and a big if he is a part of the core. He was excellent last year when healthy and I think he could be a big time innings eater at a decent ERA. A #4 pitcher, young cheap and under our control.

[ChaosLex]

Looks like Roch was reading this thread this afternoon.

The notion that Orioles president Andy MacPhail has taken a "vacation" over the holidays, suggesting that he's fiddling while the franchise burns, doesn't sit well with a few readers.

At the risk of being labeled a MacPhail apologist again, or some such nonsense, I'll point out that it's more of a "working vacation."

MacPhail's cell phone isn't turned off. He hasn't left the country. He's in Florida with one of his sons. He can take and make calls. And in this age of text messaging and e-mails, he's hardly detached from the rest of the baseball world.

It isn't necessary for MacPhail to spend every day in his third-floor office in the warehouse. It also wouldn't be fair to his family, which does enough sacrificing over the course of the year. He spends enough hours away from home without ruining their Christmas. I'd hope most fans could relate and understand.

Well, I know of at least one who won't, but so be it.

MacPhail isn't ignoring calls from agents and general managers. He's more hopeful of taking a break from the media after being bombarded with calls since the World Series ended.

http://masnsports.com/2008/12/defining-vacation.html

[Lucky Jim]

Looks like Roch was reading this thread this afternoon.

http://masnsports.com/2008/12/defining-vacation.html

Apologist!

[wildcard]

He traded Hernandez for a decent return. He signed a SS that at the very least gives some stability. Does more need to be done? Yes, but it is December 28 and not February 10.

I'll debate that one with you. He paid 5.5M for Freel. And is allowing 500k for the two minor leaguers. Freel is worth maybe half that. I really don't think he got a decent return. What he got was rid of Ramon who was probably going to play better in his contract year.

I expect Andy to do better in trading Ramon. I am kind of disappointed on that one.