Connolly: Don’t see the Os going beyond 2-3 years

[Bemorewins]

1 minute ago, eddie83 said:

It’s not a punt year. I think he should have not said or worded differently what he said. It was a PR mistake. They are running a business. 
 

I’m almost sorry I shared it.   I knew people would get worked up. Couldn’t help myself. 

What he said overall makes sense. It will be steady rise of payroll and not all at once. Now the heat is on him to make the team better this year. Let’s see what he does. 

 

My question to this is, does the organization have 70-80 million this year? And if so, why won't they spend it? This whole steady rise thing would make more sense if they hadn't pocket all the profits of the last 4 years. Where did all that money go? Are we supposed to believe that a billion dollar business that makes roundly over 200 million a year can't afford to spend 60-80 million? If that's the case and ownership is that broke, then maybe it would be best for all parties for the Angelos family to just sell the team if they haven't been able to figure this ownership thing out after 30 years.

[Bemorewins]

3 minutes ago, Pickles said:

We will get full seasons from our best players.  And almost all of our best players are young and reasonably expected to be better.  The plan is pretty clear.

Does this not apply for the Blue Jays, Mariners, Rays? You know they have great young players too?

[turtlebowl]

5 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

If making the playoffs is a realistic goal, how do you believe we leapfrog the teams in front of us from last season without making improvements? Or said another way, which one of the teams in the AL that finished better than us do you think we are now better than?

Why are you assuming no significant moves will be made before the start of the 2023 season?

way to early in my opinion to assume that.

[geschinger]

Just now, Bemorewins said:

My question to this is, does the organization have 70-80 million this year? And if so, why won't they spend it? This whole steady rise thing would make more sense if they hadn't pocket all the profits of the last 4 years. Where did all that money go? Are we supposed to believe that a billion dollar business that makes roundly over 200 million a year can't afford to spend 60-80 million? If that's the case and ownership is that broke, then maybe it would be best for all parties for the Angelos family to just sell the team if they haven't been able to figure this ownership thing out after 30 years.

If they could spend 70-80m this year without committing to 10s of millions in bad contracts in 2026 and beyond I'm guessing they would.  So how would you suggest spending 70-80m this year w/o screwing up 2026 and beyond?

[Pickles]

2 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Does this not apply for the Blue Jays, Mariners, Rays? You know they have great young players too?

Sure, and we gained a lot of ground in the last year.  We could gain more this year.

[eddie83]

Just now, Bemorewins said:

My question to this is, does the organization have 70-80 million this year? And if so, why won't they spend it? This whole steady rise thing would make more sense if they hadn't pocket all the profits of the last 4 years. Where did all that money go? Are we supposed to believe that a billion dollar business that makes roundly over 200 million a year can't afford to spend 60-80 million? If that's the case and ownership is that broke, then maybe it would be best for all parties for the Angelos family to just sell the team if they haven't been able to figure this ownership thing out after 30 years.

When my wife and daughter have gift cards they use it right away. I don’t. I wait to use them when I really want something. I always pick on them.  
 

I am not naive. I don’t expect next off-season they go wild either. The key with spending with this team is keeping our own. It will be a colossal failure on John Angelo’s’ legacy if players like Adley are gone in 5 years. Spend on our own. Add smartly in FA. Outsmart people, not outspend them. That is not an excuse not to improve the team though. 

[jcaponio]

6 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

If making the playoffs is a realistic goal, how do you believe we leapfrog the teams in front of us from last season without making improvements? Or said another way, which one of the teams in the AL that finished better than us do you think we are now better than?

These are valid questions. I’m not saying this is a playoff team as currently constructed. 

But that has absolutely nothing to do with interpreting Elias’s comment that “the goal is to be a playoff team” as 2023 being a punt year. 

[DrinkinWithFermi]

2 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

It’s not a punt year. I think he should have not said or worded differently what he said. It was a PR mistake. They are running a business. 
 

I’m almost sorry I shared it.   I knew people would get worked up. Couldn’t help myself. 

What he said overall makes sense. It will be steady rise of payroll and not all at once. Now the heat is on him to make the team better this year. Let’s see what he does. 

 

To be clear, I am not basing that statement on this batch of quotes alone, but rather a bunch of various data points, such as the Gibson signing and its timing, Elias trying to sell Nomar Mazara as a viable option for next year's lineup, and the intensity with which he has tried to damage control his use of the term "liftoff." I think that, when taken together with this latest batch of quotes, and a few other items, it strongly suggests that significantly improving the 2023 club is not much of a priority and that our playoff chances will hinge almost entirely on internal improvement.

That is what I mean by "punt year."

12 minutes ago, jcaponio said:

That might be what you think, but stop making it seem like it’s what he actually said. 
 

He literally said the goal was to make the playoffs. Nothing about that says “punt”.

See above.

And then make peace with the fact that I will continue expressing my opinions however I see fit to (within site guidelines, of course).

14 minutes ago, Pickles said:

You're the one making sTuFf up for "comedic effect."  

Okay man, split those hairs I guess 

[Bemorewins]

That's the thing there is no way to control what will happen in 2026 and beyond. Rodriguez could blowout an elbow, Rutchsman could suffer a knee injury, someone else could regress, etc.

Verlander could have been had on a two year deal. Rondon is injury prone sure and will probably not give you 5 great years. Correra comes with injury risk. But here's the thing, that is the cost of doing business in the modern business of baseball.

In 2026, these players would be three years into their deals and if they had 5/6 year contracts we would be half way done. And by the time they are ready to come off the books you could use that money on someone else including retaining your own players.

Punting on free agency is putting the team at a competitive disadvantage no matter how you slice it. There are only a certain number of ways that you can improve your club and this is one. This is as bad of a strategy as when we didn't do international scouting/signings or have a Dominican program.

You can afford shut yourself off from talent acquisitions from whatever avenues they present themselves. This would have been a perfect time to go heavier in free agency given the low cost of our payroll. Plus I'm looking at it from a momentum standpoint with the fans in the community. Like with these last few days of sheer stupidity we have ruined all or most of the capital that we gained with many fans from last year's surprising season. If you don't believe me look around this board a little or take a look on Twitter or when you are out and about tomorrow ask fans what they think of what the team is doing. See how many approve.

Is this approach worth that cost?

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

To be clear, I am not basing that statement on this batch of quotes alone, but rather a bunch of various data points, such as the Gibson signing and its timing, Elias trying to sell Nomar Mazara as a viable option for next year's lineup, and the intensity with which he has tried to damage control his use of the term "liftoff." I think that, when taken together with this latest batch of quotes, and a few other items, it strongly suggests that significantly improving the 2023 club is not much of a priority and that our playoff chances will hinge almost entirely on internal improvement.

That is what I mean by "punt year."

See above.

And then make peace with the fact that I will continue expressing my opinions however I see fit to (within site guidelines, of course).

Okay man, split those hairs I guess 

Did you paraphrase something and put it inside quotations suggesting those were the exact words?

Wouldn't you have a problem if everyone started doing that?

[Bemorewins]

9 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Sure, and we gained a lot of ground in the last year.  We could gain more this year.

Ok I'm not talking about hope and Orioles magic and whatever non-quantifiable things that could be used. I'm speaking of talent. Like look at their rotations and lineups and then look at ours. Look at the number of guys in our rotation and bullpen that over-performed. Are you counting on all of them to stay the same and then the young guys to take off? If so, I would say that's a bad bet.

[jcaponio]

4 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

See above.

And then make peace with the fact that I will continue expressing my opinions however I see fit to (within site guidelines, of course).

Big difference between expressing your opinions and making stuff up. I think the latter is not “within site guidelines”, but that’s not my call. 

[Pickles]

2 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Ok I'm not talking about hope and Orioles magic and whatever non-quantifiable things that could be used. I'm speaking of talent. Like look at their rotations and lineups and then look at ours. Look at the number of guys in our rotation and bullpen that over-performed. Are you counting on all of them to stay the same and then the young guys to take off? If so, I would say that's a bad bet.

So you think it takes magic fairy dust to think that full seasons of Rutschman and Henderson will result in more wins?  

[Pickles]

9 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

To be clear, I am not basing that statement on this batch of quotes alone, but rather a bunch of various data points, such as the Gibson signing and its timing, Elias trying to sell Nomar Mazara as a viable option for next year's lineup, and the intensity with which he has tried to damage control his use of the term "liftoff." I think that, when taken together with this latest batch of quotes, and a few other items, it strongly suggests that significantly improving the 2023 club is not much of a priority and that our playoff chances will hinge almost entirely on internal improvement.

That is what I mean by "punt year."

See above.

And then make peace with the fact that I will continue expressing my opinions however I see fit to (within site guidelines, of course).

Okay man, split those hairs I guess 

Not allowing you to make up evidence to support your point is not splitting hairs.  It's kinda central to the whole thing.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

Just now, RZNJ said:

Did you paraphrase something and put it inside quotations suggesting those were the exact words?

Wouldn't you have a problem if everyone started doing that?

It was a poor choice, but their was no ill intent behind it. The original source was only like a page or two prior and quoted multiple times by multiple users so it's not like I could get away with it even if I was trying to get away with something.

Just now, Pickles said:

Not allowing you to make up evidence to support your point is not splitting hairs.  It's kinda central to the whole thing.

See above.