Kostka: Os need to follow a different path

[Sports Guy]

25 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Let me add, the bigger point here is that Elias's strategy this offseason smells of ownership. That is very likely where the blame should be going. 

Ownership didn’t order him to spend 8M on Frazier and block young, cheap players.

[Number5]

11 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Eovaldi + Westburg > Frazier + Gibson.

Same cost. 

This is just plain false.  The money certainly isn't equal, and Westburg is with the team and most likely starting the season at Norfolk in either case.  Hey, I'm still not clear on what the need for Frazier was, given the middle infielders we already had on the roster, but this is simply an invalid argument.

[sportsfan8703]

On 1/6/2023 at 6:27 PM, owknows said:

My complaint with him is his unnecessary complication of his own logjam by adding Frazier to the mix.

We needed to see the young guys.

But there' not much left on this dead horse to beat, so I'll leave it there.

There’s not really a log jam. There will be a 4 man rotation for 3B, SS, and 2B. If there’s an injury Westburg will join that mix. Westburg could also get some ABs at 1B. Ortiz and Norby need more AAA seasoning. They just got a taste last year. Vavra is a Util guy. 

[Grady]

Could the team be saving the free agent money or the money they have saved over the past years to sign Adley , Henderson and Rodriguez to long term deals before they hit arbitration? 

[Can_of_corn]

18 minutes ago, Grady said:

Could the team be saving the free agent money or the money they have saved over the past years to sign Adley , Henderson and Rodriguez to long term deals before they hit arbitration? 

Could be but I doubt it.

[Sports Guy]

21 hours ago, Number5 said:

This is just plain false.  The money certainly isn't equal, and Westburg is with the team and most likely starting the season at Norfolk in either case.  Hey, I'm still not clear on what the need for Frazier was, given the middle infielders we already had on the roster, but this is simply an invalid argument.

Eovaldi is about 17M a year.  Westburg is 740k.

Gibson is 10M and Frazier is 8M.

That’s essentially the same money unless math has changed?

As for Westburg, he’s ready to be here. My point is I would rather have him playing every day and sign Eovaldi than the combo they went with.

It doesn’t matter that he’s still with the team. He’s not getting those everyday at bats unless stuff is going to happen and he is the third baseman and Gunnar is the SS.

Edited January 8, 2023 by Sports Guy

[SemperFi]

On 1/6/2023 at 7:44 PM, sevastras said:

“It’s never been done this way.” Until it has. I’m tired of people who work for a company and have never owned a business saying things should be done this way or that way because that is how everyone else has always done it. I personally wish that things were done differently, but I am going to question the end result and not what I don’t fully understand of the beginning. If what we find at the end of the year isn’t what we had hoped for and can see in hindsight that the moves made this off-season were garbage, then we can say your strategy and thinking isn’t correct and didn’t work. But until then, writers and armchair GMs can sit in the comfort of their living rooms and never admit they were wrong if things do turn out right. 

Sure, that's the fun and agnst of it.  I let my ex wife have the pressure of making many decisions but I certainly reserved the right to criticize!!

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, Grady said:

Could the team be saving the free agent money or the money they have saved over the past years to sign Adley , Henderson and Rodriguez to long term deals before they hit arbitration? 

They could but it’s not logical. Those players are playing on cheap deals for the next 2-3 years. Whether you sign then long term or not doesn’t matter.

You could give Correa, as an example, a 2/70 deal. You could give Adley a 10 year deal. Correa is gone by the time Adley makes arb1 money. 
 

So, the money you spend for him is relevant to money you spend for Adley.

[RZNJ]

37 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Eovaldi is about 17M a year.  Westburg is 740k.

Gibson is 10M and Frazier is 8M.

That’s essentially the same money unless math has changed?

As for Westburg, he’s ready to be here. My point is I would rather have him playing every day and sign Eovaldi than the combo they went with.

It doesn’t matter that he’s still with the team. He’s not getting those everyday at bats unless stuff is going to happen and he is the third baseman and Gunnar is the SS.

They could have gone Gibson/Westburg.  Again, Eovaldi has topped 125 innings once in the last 6 years.  The only year Gibson didn’t was 2020 in the shortened season.   Also, a 2-year commitment versus 1.    You can make a case for either pitcher but it’s clear that Gibson is a better bet to give you 170-180 innings in 2023.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, RZNJ said:

They could have gone Gibson/Westburg.  Again, Eovaldi has topped 125 innings once in the last 6 years.  The only year Gibson didn’t was 2020 in the shortened season.   Also, a 2-year commitment versus 1.    You can make a case for either pitcher but it’s clear that Gibson is a better bet to give you 170-180 innings in 2023.

And again, I don’t care.

As I have said, I would have rather gambled with the higher upside play.

Gibson is more likely to give you those innings..but he’s also more likely to give you a 5 ERA with those innings.

[RZNJ]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

And again, I don’t care.

As I have said, I would have rather gambled with the higher upside play.

Gibson is more likely to give you those innings..but he’s also more likely to give you a 5 ERA with those innings.

No problem.  However, with young pitchers who, for the most part, can’t be counted on for innings, the most important attribute of the veteran pitching acquisitions is ability to give innings.  Of course, with Gibson, it’s a question of how good those innings will be.

[Grady]

Wouldn’t fans rather see the young guys stay on big contracts ? If the team is really ready sure add a big name guy. Question is are they yet? Adley is pretty much a sure thing. Henderson, same but not so sure yet. Rodriguez, who really knows yet. Then you have the rest, somewhere in the group there might be another star.

 

 

[Sports Guy]

15 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

No problem.  However, with young pitchers who, for the most part, can’t be counted on for innings, the most important attribute of the veteran pitching acquisitions is ability to give innings.  Of course, with Gibson, it’s a question of how good those innings will be.

I don’t see how we can’t count on innings from any starter in the rotation outside of maybe Wells and he may not be in the rotation anyway.

[Sports Guy]

9 minutes ago, Grady said:

Wouldn’t fans rather see the young guys stay on big contracts ? If the team is really ready sure add a big name guy. Question is are they yet? Adley is pretty much a sure thing. Henderson, same but not so sure yet. Rodriguez, who really knows yet. Then you have the rest, somewhere in the group there might be another star.

 

 

The young guys are here for the next 5-6 years regardless of what else is done around them.

[RZNJ]

15 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I don’t see how we can’t count on innings from any starter in the rotation outside of maybe Wells and he may not be in the rotation anyway.

Grayson Rodriguez?