Don't bet against "Mr Everywhere"

[wildcard]

17 minutes ago, now said:

I must have missed something. Urias is injured? But Urias is playing in the WBC? Can someone clarify please?

Urias went on the IL for a knee strain 9/28/2022.   He has committed to play in the WBC so that should be behind him.

[Frobby]

27 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think they should worry about who goes where when Holliday is ready when they have a better grasp on when that date is.

You don't make OD 2023 decisions based off of what Holliday might do in two years.

I agree.  Everyone has gotten very spoiled with our highly touted prospects always moving quickly with few hiccups the last two years.  It’s not always going to go that way.  We’re trying to make the playoffs in 2023 and 2024, not set the table for Holliday.   

[Frobby]

4 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

The signing of Frazier doomed Westburg's chances of starting the year in Baltimore

 

Do you expect Vavra to make the OD roster?  I think he and Westburg are competing for a spot, with Vavra having some edge since he’s on the 40-man roster, but not a shoe-in.   

[RZNJ]

52 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

And then who goes where when Holliday is ready? Why not just develop Gunnar to play 3B and stay there? And where do Norby and Mayo fit? 

Who goes when Holliday is ready?  Good problem to have.  

Mayo might fit at 3B.  Other potential landing spots are RF and 1B.   

Reading the tea leaves, Norby is not a good defensive 2B.  He's either going to be trade bait or change positions.  LF?, 1B?  DH?  3B?  Got me.

Where is Holliday going to play if Almeyda turns into a star?  These are the kinds of problems we want.

Elias has already said Henderson will play SS and 3B this year.  If the plan is to settle him in at 3B, why have him split time?  Keeping their options open.

[RZNJ]

1 hour ago, AnythingO's said:

Wow, didn't see that take coming. Gunnar is #1 prospect and viewed as GG and All Star there. He is viewed as above average at SS but behind Ortiz defensively. By 2024 Holiday should be knocking on the door if he is all they say he is. Why would you mess with Gunnar's development at 3B? Are you envisioning doing this to improve Westburg's value in a trade? Are you displacing both 2022 GGs in 2023 with Gunnar and Westburg?

Did anyone think Urias and Mateo were GG heading into 2022?   Westburg actually has a lot in common with Urias defensively.  Again, this is what I'm guessing the organization feels.  Westburg as an above average 3B, Henderson as talented as Mateo at SS, and Ortiz as good as it gets at 2B.

[AnythingO's]

8 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I agree.  Everyone has gotten very spoiled with our highly touted prospects always moving quickly with few hiccups the last two years.  It’s not always going to go that way.  We’re trying to make the playoffs in 2023 and 2024, not set the table for Holliday.   

I don't know if you were referring to me but I'm not trying to set the table for Holiday, or Ortiz, or Mateo. I just fail to see the benefit of moving Gunnar around for lesser players, IMO he is your 3B of the future so let him settle in and work hard to extend him. I'm fine with Mateo getting the chance to repeat last years defense and possibly revisit his plate discipline from last summer. He gets a few months, if he doesn't work out, Ortiz is next man up. Urias has never played defense at that level before and doesn't have a strong arm. Yeah, never played 3B before but why not? He has been trying to break thru for more than a decade. I believe his defense is more at risk than the toolsy Mateo and Urias has shown the ability to play all 3 IF positions adequately, Mateo has been only SS. If Mateo holds serve then Urias/Ortiz can push for time at 2B. Westburg isn't the better prospect at the 3 IF positions than any of them defensively. Find a home for his bat elsewhere.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, AnythingO's said:

I don't know if you were referring to me but I'm not trying to set the table for Holiday, or Ortiz, or Mateo. I just fail to see the benefit of moving Gunnar around for lesser players, IMO he is your 3B of the future so let him settle in and work hard to extend him. I'm fine with Mateo getting the chance to repeat last years defense and possibly revisit his plate discipline from last summer. He gets a few months, if he doesn't work out, Ortiz is next man up. Urias has never played defense at that level before and doesn't have a strong arm. Yeah, never played 3B before but why not? He has been trying to break thru for more than a decade. I believe his defense is more at risk than the toolsy Mateo and Urias has shown the ability to play all 3 IF positions adequately, Mateo has been only SS. If Mateo holds serve then Urias/Ortiz can push for time at 2B. Westburg isn't the better prospect at the 3 IF positions than any of them defensively. Find a home for his bat elsewhere.

But if he can play a quality shortstop why would you not want him at the more valuable position?  He certainly hasn't shown that he can't play Short.

If Gunnar can play Short now but needs to move to Third in 2027 worry about it then.  Why waste four years of him at Short because eventually he's going to have to move to Third?  Heck maybe when he's 38 he'll have to DH so let's just move him there now so he won't have to adjust later...

[AnythingO's]

Well is very good Gunnar at SS worth more than GG Gunnar at 3B? If Holiday is everything the pundits say, as in a strong candidate for our 3rd straight #1 prospect, then he will arrive long before 2027, baring injury.

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, AnythingO's said:

Well is very good Gunnar at SS worth more than GG Gunnar at 3B? If Holiday is everything the pundits say, as in a strong candidate for our 3rd straight #1 prospect, then he will arrive long before 2027, baring injury.

I guess it depends on what type of SS you think Gunnar can be.  He surprised me with his agility and quickness and we know his foot speed is only a tick behind Mateo's and his arm is a tick better.   Maybe the Orioles think he'll be GG at SS.

 

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think they should worry about who goes where when Holliday is ready when they have a better grasp on when that date is.

You don't make OD 2023 decisions based off of what Holliday might do in two years.

Agreed but I wasn't really talking about Opening Day '23 since I don't think Westburg is making it.

As far as Opening Day, question right now is whether we are better off with Urias's bat with Gunnar at SS, or Mateo's defense with Gunnar at 3B. I am fine with either solution but not a fan of moving our best player around like a utility guy. Pick a plan and go with it until it fails. 

[Aristotelian]

58 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Westburg projects as a run producer.  They have him for 6 years.

Santander is a FA after 2024.   He is  more likely traded later this year.  

Elias needs to see this play out more before picking between his core prospects.

He needs time to see how long it will take Holliday to impact the majors.   He probably will not know that for a year or more.

Elias has taken years to collection his young talent.   He is not going to rush to trade it IMO.

 

I am not proposing to "rush" a trade. Rather, get equivalent value for Westburg at a position that is more of a need. If Westburg is as valuable as you say he should get us a good pitcher or 1B.

[AnythingO's]

21 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I guess it depends on what type of SS you think Gunnar can be.  He surprised me with his agility and quickness and we know his foot speed is only a tick behind Mateo's and his arm is a tick better.   Maybe the Orioles think he'll be GG at SS.

I don't disagree but we have no idea what they think. Tony has Mateo and Ortiz as nearly equal with Gunnar behind but able to play very good D until he outgrows the position. Heck, Westburg can play SS, maybe better than Urias. To me it comes down to folks believing Urias is a better bet to repeat defensively than Mateo and the delta between Urias's bat and Mateo's will offset the drop in defense from Mateo to Gunnar. I just think Mateo has a better chance to repeat than Urias defensively and I'm willing to risk his bat for 3 months with Ortiz in the wings to find out.

[wildcard]

3 hours ago, RZNJ said:

My gut feeling is they envision Westburg 3B, Henderson SS, and Ortiz 2B by OD 2024.  

Not a bad take.   One of the possibility. 

[wildcard]

There is really only one problem with giving Gunnar the starting SS job.   What if this guy hits?

 

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, wildcard said:

There is really only one problem with giving Gunnar the starting SS job.   What if this guy hits?

 

You trade this guy?

Play this guy at second?

Edited January 30, 2023 by Can_of_corn