BRob potential deals to the Cubs

[SHAWN555]

Other teams that have stated an interest. None. Teams where discussions have happened, but we do not know who was the interested party: Indians, Cubs, and White Sox. The Cubs last showed an interest in Roberts back in October via Gordan Whittenmeyer or whatever his last name is. Nothing since. Nothing at all in the media. The White Sox have shown slightly more interest in that the Orioles were actually talking to them about Roberts. All indications out of the Cubs front office is that they have a money crunch and that they think Mike Fontenot is an improvement over what DeRosa gave them last year. The Indians interest was rebuffed when the Orioles asked for Carmona and Cabrera.

No one else has inquired this offseason as far as internet and print suggests.

We know next to nothing.

All of this is conjecture.

Me suggesting the Angels is pretty much as reasonable as you suggesting the Cubs in that we have reason to think neither of them want Roberts.

Yeah Howie Kendrick vs Mike Fontenot makes the Angels unreasonable.

The cubs have shown an interest in Roberts to be the lead off hitter.

Most of everything on these boards is conjecture.

We know the Indians are out now with DeRosa.

So with there being a lack of teams interested we should hold out for some top tiered prospects who are not redundant?

[SHAWN555]

OK, we'd be standing at the craps table and placing chips on FOUR of those dumb bets in the middle.

No thanks.

Your craps analogies make no sense.

At the worst we are improving our outfield defense, gaining an everday second baseman and adding a nice pitcher to our pen.

And who knows maybe Hill finds his stuff maybe he does not.

I think taking two draft picks for him is more of crapshoot than getting some players who have shown some major league ability.

[crawdad]

Yeah Howie Kendrick vs Mike Fontenot makes the Angels unreasonable.

The cubs have shown an interest in Roberts to be the lead off hitter.

Most of everything on these boards is conjecture.

We know the Indians are out now with DeRosa.

So with there being a lack of teams interested we should hold out for some top tiered prospects who are not redundant?

The front office needs to determine:

1) Is there a team who can provide non-redundant players?

2) Will there likely be a team who will offer said players and will Roberts value at that time be high enough to acquire them?

If the only thing we could get is the Cubs offer? It might be the right thing to do. That being said. You could probably get Pie without moving Roberts. Pie has no options and is likely the odd man out. We could trade non-40 man prospects to acquire him. Roberts could be utilized for something later if possible. Worst case, he is 2 picks or he accepts arbitration . . . not a big loss.

[crawdad]

Your craps analogies make no sense.

At the worst we are improving our outfield defense, gaining an everday second baseman and adding a nice pitcher to our pen.

And who knows maybe Hill finds his stuff maybe he does not.

I think taking two draft picks for him is more of crapshoot than getting some players who have shown some major league ability.

Just a note . . . I do like Wuertz' arm, but I did not see much of him last season. In 2007, he was overused in the pen and was pretty bad last year. You have to believe he can bounce back to determine if he is worth getting. Maybe Davearm could answer that. His peripherals were pretty bad last season.

[Sports Guy]

OK, we'd be standing at the craps table and placing chips on FOUR of those dumb bets in the middle.

No thanks.

Here are your options(let's say it has to be one of these 3 things):

1) Trade BRob for the 4 Cubs players.

2) Let him walk for picks.

3) Extend him for 4 years at 10 million a year.

Which option are you choosing and why?

[Sports Guy]

Just a note . . . I do like Wuertz' arm, but I did not see much of him last season. In 2007, he was overused in the pen and was pretty bad last year. You have to believe he can bounce back to determine if he is worth getting. Maybe Davearm could answer that. His peripherals were pretty bad last season.

Yea, I did wonder about this...What happened to him?

That being said, relievers go through years like that and he has always been solid and had good peripherals, so I wouldn't mind taking a chance on him.

[RShack]

At the worst we are improving our outfield defense, gaining an everday second baseman and adding a nice pitcher to our pen.

No, that's not true.

At worst we'd be:

• Replacing a LF'er who can actually hit, and who the Fielding Bible ranked 4th in D among all ML LF'ers, and substituting a guy who is faster and can't hit.
• Replacing a very good 2Bman with a guy who isn't an everyday big league 2Bman at all.

It might be better than that, or it might not.

All we know for sure is that the Cubs had slots for these guys and made moves to make damn sure these guys don't get those slots.

Yes, the Cubs situation is different than ours, but still.

[SHAWN555]

No, that's not true.

At worst we'd be:

• Replacing a LF'er who can actually hit, and who the Fielding Bible ranked 4th in D among all ML LF'ers, and substituting a guy who is faster and can't hit.
• Replacing a very good 2Bman with a guy who isn't an everyday big league 2Bman at all.

It might be better than that, or it might not.

All we know for sure is that the Cubs had slots for these guys and made moves to make damn sure these guys don't get those slots.

Yes, the Cubs situation is different than ours, but still.

Scott would be DH, Huff first base, Pie left field.

So Pie would be replacing Millar.

How do you know cedeno is not an everyday second baseman?

Saying the cubs are in a different situation is a bit of an understatement.

The cubs are trying to win a world series, the orioles are building for the future and trying to get to regain some respect.

More than likely we are going to have to replace Brob after this season, so do we just keep him and take the two picks?

[El Gordo]

Here are your options(let's say it has to be one of these 3 things):

1) Trade BRob for the 4 Cubs players.

2) Let him walk for picks.

3) Extend him for 4 years at 10 million a year.

Which option are you choosing and why?

I don't think you have to extend him for 4 years just 3. I would do that first, then I would see if I could aquire Pie, Hill ,and Cedeno with lesser players so I could trade BRob at the deadline. If all else fails I would take Pie, Cedeno, Hill, and Weurtze before draft picks.

[TonySoprano]

I think taking two draft picks for him is more of crapshoot than getting some players who have shown some major league ability.

Looking at their numbers to date, what major league ability have they really shown? They're out of options. Either they succeed this year or they're lost, unless they can clear waivers.

[Sports Guy]

Looking at their numbers to date, what major league ability have they really shown?

Pie has been in a small sample size and irregular at bats...Its not really fair to judge him.

Cedeno has had more at bats but never been given a full compliment of at bats in a season.

[TonySoprano]

Pie has been in a small sample size and irregular at bats...Its not really fair to judge him.

Cedeno has had more at bats but never been given a full compliment of at bats in a season.

Still you're willing to package them up for a proven quantity in Roberts. IMO, there's a better chance of Roberts producing for the next three years than those two.

Is it so improbable that we can't draft one or two guys that will pan out better than those two? I don't care if it takes those picks three or four years to reach the majors. Someone needs to give a better argument how the Cubs group fits into our long-term plans.

The Floyd deal is intriguing; the Cubs collection of castaways isn't.

Here are your options(let's say it has to be one of these 3 things):

1) Trade BRob for the 4 Cubs players.

2) Let him walk for picks.

3) Extend him for 4 years at 10 million a year.

Which option are you choosing and why?

The Cubs deal is at the bottom of those options.

[Sports Guy]

Still you're willing to package them up for a proven quantity in Roberts. IMO, there's a better chance of Roberts producing for the next three years than those two.

Is it so improbable that we can't draft one or two guys that will pan out better than those two? I don't care if it takes those picks three or four years to reach the majors. Someone needs to give a better argument how the Cubs group fits into our long-term plans.

The Floyd deal is intriguing; the Cubs collection of castaways isn't.

Extending BRob is a terrible move unless it is for 1 or 2 years, which isn't likely to happen.

So, it comes down to picks vs best deal available.

I would much rather have the Cubs guys than the 2 picks.

I also think that we can no longer assume draft picks until the market and economy get better.

[TonySoprano]

Extending BRob is a terrible move unless it is for 1 or 2 years, which isn't likely to happen.

Why terrible? Roberts will be productive longer than you think. I'd go three years with a club option.

ETA

We've had this conversation before.

Craig Biggio played 2B at age 42. His OPS+ age 30-35: 120-143-139-113-93-110.

Ray Durham is still playing second base at age 36. Durham's OPS+ age 30-36: 118-111-117-104-127-65-113.

If you take a look at Jeff Kent's career, his best years were from ages 29-34.

IMO, Brian Roberts will still be productive during the period of a three-year extension through 2012 and possibly longer.

[RShack]

Scott would be DH, Huff first base, Pie left field.

So Pie would be replacing Millar.

Millar is gone. He has nothing to do with this.

You'd be taking Scott, a guy who has demonstrated be can both hit and field, and turning him into a DH, which reduces his value considerably.

And you'd do that because Pie hasn't proved squat but you want to give him a chance? Not me.

How do you know cedeno is not an everyday second baseman?

I don't. He might be. Or he might not. Beats me.

The Cubs sure don't want to find out. So far, they think he's not.

If we can get him for cheap, fine. But I don't want trade BRob and be forced to find out the hard way.

Now, if the scouts convince AM he's worth it, that's one thing. But, face it, the people posting about how we "need" to grab Cedeno aren't scouts.