Schoenfeld gives Os offseason a D+

[DirtyBird]

9 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I never asked for top prospect for middling player trades. Keep up the strawman though. 
 

And no I didn’t like the Norris trade.

No. You just have unrealistic expectations of what your imaginary trade will return - like Mullins for a front of rotation starter.

Because we can replace Mullins, but some other teams need him so bad they are willing up to give up quality pitching going into a new season.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Number5 said:

Of course you won't answer my question regarding he Norris trade or acknowledge that Elias did trade Hernaiz for Irvin+.  That wouldn't fit your narrative.  Trying to claim that the Orioles are unwilling to make trades flies in the face of reality.  The comments by the mysterious exec were tactless, and were left unsupported.  If we aren't going to consider what really happened over some blind comment that smacks of sour grapes, I don't know what to tell you.  The exec's comments, and your support of them, are the strawman arguments here.  I'm discussing actual events.  Yet, to you, that is dumb.  

I did answer it. Try reading.

And I never said they didn’t want to make a trade.  Not sure why you are making stuff up.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

No. You just have unrealistic expectations of what your imaginary trade will return - like Mullins for a front of rotation starter.

Because we can replace Mullins, but some other teams need him so bad they are willing up to give up quality pitching going into a new season.

I never said Mullins would bring back a front line starter but keep saying dumb stuff..you excel at it.

[DirtyBird]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

I never said Mullins would bring back a front line starter but keep saying dumb stuff..you excel at it.

Then sack up and say what type of trade you expected to see.

Who is the trade partner?

Who would we get?

What is a hypothetical package we give up?

Have you put that out there?

[Number5]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

I did answer it. Try reading.

And I never said they didn’t want to make a trade.  Not sure why you are making stuff up.

As you know, you edited your post as I was typing my reply.  Why would you pretend otherwise?  Not good. 

Thanks for finally answering.  Of course, we all already knew this.  You would undoubtedly criticize such a trade.  On the other hand, Elias did pull the trigger on the Irvin trade.  It sure seems like he's willing to trade, but isn't willing to just give away our prospects.  You apparently seem to think that some great trades were offered.  There is no evidence to support that.

[Can_of_corn]

11 minutes ago, Number5 said:

On the other hand, Elias did pull the trigger on the Irvin trade.  It sure seems like he's willing to trade, but isn't willing to just give away our prospects.  

That's a pretty big jump from not a lot of data.

 

[Sports Guy]

17 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

Then sack up and say what type of trade you expected to see.

Who is the trade partner?

Who would we get?

What is a hypothetical package we give up?

Have you put that out there?

Yes and no..I talked a lot about trading Mullins to the Marlins..with guys like Edward Cabrera, Lopez and Rogers amongst the targets.

Would have shopped him to the Astros.  Would have wanted to talk to the Brewers about Burnes or Woodruff.

There are lots of packages and players out there. My only off limit players are Adley, Gunnar, Holliday and GRod unless completely blown away to move them and I don’t believe that scenario realistically exists.

[Sports Guy]

17 minutes ago, Number5 said:

As you know, you edited your post as I was typing my reply.  Why would you pretend otherwise?  Not good. 

Thanks for finally answering.  Of course, we all already knew this.  You would undoubtedly criticize such a trade.  On the other hand, Elias did pull the trigger on the Irvin trade.  It sure seems like he's willing to trade, but isn't willing to just give away our prospects.  You apparently seem to think that some great trades were offered.  There is no evidence to support that.

Show me where I said that or anything  remotely like that?

I wasn’t in the room with you when you were typing, so no I don’t know that.

And I didn’t answer you because I just skimmed over your post and didn’t see the question.  It’s not like you were asking some thought provoking question that was really intense or difficult to answer.

Edited February 18, 2023 by Sports Guy

[Number5]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Show me where I said that or anything  remotely like that?

That is your entire argument, is it not?  If not that, what?  The "exec" and you are out and out claiming that the Orioles are unwilling to trade prospects for pitching.  That is the whole point that was being put forth.  Yet reality proves otherwise.

[Number5]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

That's a pretty big jump from not a lot of data.

 

Explain.  I'm not the one making leaps here.  The Orioles did, in fact, trade Hernaiz for Irvin+.  Common sense says that in order to get a better prospect than Hernaiz from the Orioles, a team needs to offer a better return than Irvin.  I'm making no great jump at all.  Asserting otherwise would be to be taking unsubstantiated jumps.

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, Number5 said:

Explain.  I'm not the one making leaps here.  The Orioles did, in fact, trade Hernaiz for Irvin+.  Common sense says that in order to get a better prospect than Hernaiz from the Orioles, a team needs to offer a better return than Irvin.  I'm making no great jump at all.  Asserting otherwise would be to be taking unsubstantiated jumps.

Couple things.

1- This stuff about "willing to just give away our prospects. ".  I don't think this is a thing.  I don't think other teams are trying to get Elias to "give away" guys.  Mostly I think guys are looking to make equitable trades.  I think "winning" trades is a mindset in message boards and not in front offices.  You give value you get a hopefully equivalent value back.

2- We have a small data set at this point.  He's made one trade so far in which he could be categorized as a buyer.  He know he would trade Hernaiz for Irvin.  That doesn't mean he'd accept a "fair" trade for someone he regards more highly.  No disrespect to Hernaiz but in the Orioles farm system he was a depth piece.  Is Elias willing to trade highly regarded pieces for legitimate difference maker MLB talent?  We don't yet have the data to say that he would. 

You can't look at the Hernaiz trade and with any certainly say it indicates he'd make a deal for Burnes.

[Number5]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Couple things.

1- This stuff about "willing to just give away our prospects. ".  I don't think this is a thing.  I don't think other teams are trying to get Elias to "give away" guys.  Mostly I think guys are looking to make equitable trades.  I think "winning" trades is a mindset in message boards and not in front offices.  You give value you get a hopefully equivalent value back.

2- We have a small data set at this point.  He's made one trade so far in which he could be categorized as a buyer.  He know he would trade Hernaiz for Irvin.  That doesn't mean he'd accept a "fair" trade for someone he regards more highly.  No disrespect to Hernaiz but in the Orioles farm system he was a depth piece.  Is Elias willing to trade highly regarded pieces for legitimate difference maker MLB talent?  We don't yet have the data to say that he would. 

You can't look at the Hernaiz trade and with any certainly say it indicates he'd make a deal for Burnes.

I'm not.  However, you and others are implying that he won't.  Based on what?  My point is simple:  the data we have says Elias is willing to make a trade.  Nothing more, nothing less.  We do know that we have zero data supporting the contrary.

[Sports Guy]

2 hours ago, Number5 said:

Look, it isn't dumb to disagree with you.  Who do you think you are?  Your constant insults of the intelligence of anyone who disagrees with you is really tiresome.  Did you like the Bud Norris trade?  If a trade like that was offered to Elias, would you want him to accept it?

So this is where your tirade started. Yes, it is dumb to think an exec went to a writer and talked down about another team because they wouldn’t trade with him.

You don’t like me saying that’s dumb..get over it. It’s a dumb thing to believe. 

Edited February 18, 2023 by Sports Guy

[Sports Guy]

36 minutes ago, Number5 said:

That is your entire argument, is it not?  If not that, what?  The "exec" and you are out and out claiming that the Orioles are unwilling to trade prospects for pitching.  That is the whole point that was being put forth.  Yet reality proves otherwise.

As for this…

No, it’s not my argument. You keep mentioning Hernaiz for Irvin, as if that trade actually matters or is what anyone is talking about.  I have said several times that I liked that move a lot.

This is about upgrading the top end of the roster. Trading a middling prospect for a back end starter isn’t what anyone is talking about and it’s not anything that anyone denies could happen. That trade doesn’t move the needle or bring you closer to the top teams in the AL.  The discussion is about the Os taking advantage of their situation, having a ton of prospects (can’t play them all), lots of money, etc…and failing to do anything to legitimately close the gap with the best teams in the league.

Instead of going on an irrational rant, why don’t you just simply ask a question and not assume you have any idea what you are talking about or what someone else you THINK is arguing.

Edited February 18, 2023 by Sports Guy

[Can_of_corn]

9 minutes ago, Number5 said:

I'm not.  However, you and others are implying that he won't.  Based on what?  My point is simple:  the data we have says Elias is willing to make a trade.  Nothing more, nothing less.  We do know that we have zero data supporting the contrary.

You did say it.  That's where I got it from.  I quoted you.

We know he will do A, that doesn't mean he will do B.