AL team to watch: White Sox

[Can_of_corn]

10 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I don’t want to watch the White Sox. 

At least Hawk and Tony are gone.

[Frobby]

48 minutes ago, EddeeEddee said:

Weren't they both close to free agency?  That's the other part of my point, Dylan Cease is not. 

No, they weren’t.  Both had signed extensions with their existing teams. Both had three seasons to go when they were traded.  

[Moose Milligan]

11 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

At least Hawk and Tony are gone.

Would love to see La Russa have to manage with the new rules and the ensuing stroke. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Moose Milligan said:

Would love to see La Russa have to manage with the new rules and the ensuing stroke. 

Could drive a man to drink!

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Could drive a man to drink!

And drive!

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Moose Milligan said:

And drive!

Or just  passed out at a traffic light.

[EddeeEddee]

20 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I think that I hear you saying, that the White Sox may not be interested in trading Cease?

That could be true. But they only have 2 seasons left with him and they are almost assuredly going to sell off other pieces like Giolito, Clevinger, Lynn (if they can), Grandal and maybe Anderson and Moncado. What would make them believe that they are going to compete next year, with way less pieces than they have now? There best bet with the kind of roster they have now, particularly the shape of their rotation and the condition of their bullpen would be to sell. They are not going to win a World Series in Cease's final 2 years, they are nowhere close.

Right, I think the White Sox are in a position to ask for the moon for Cease this year because he's more than 2 years away from FA.  If they don't get what they want then they'll just say, OK, let's talk in the offseason -- or next season.  Or they'll trade him to some other team that is willing to overpay for him.  But next season -- or even in the offseason -- they'll feel more pressure to really negotiate as free agency gets closer.  I could be wrong, they may want to do a deal soon.  But if they don't try to get something of a sizable overpay for him this year then they won't really be doing their job.  They're terrible this year and they need to extract as much as they can from their best tradeable player before they feel the pressure of free agency to do a deal.  Frobby mentioned Erik Bedard, who got a very nice return for the Orioles, and I think Bedard was less than 2 years away from FA when that deal happened.  I'd love to be wrong about all this of course and see the O's get him next week for McKenna, Vavra and Akin.  

[EddeeEddee]

13 minutes ago, Frobby said:

No, they weren’t.  Both had signed extensions with their existing teams. Both had three seasons to go when they were traded.  

Ok I see, but they would have been close to FA had they not signed extensions.  I guess those are similar examples to Cease except that they were possibly traded to shed a bit of salary as well since they had extensions.  But I'm thinking the Rays certainly were not sellers when they traded Snell.  Maybe with Snell also more like the Pablo Lopez trade in that the Rays had an embarrassment of pitching riches they were willing to deal to get better down the road.  The Rays are crafty.  

[Bemorewins]

4 minutes ago, EddeeEddee said:

Right, I think the White Sox are in a position to ask for the moon for Cease this year because he's more than 2 years away from FA.  If they don't get what they want then they'll just say, OK, let's talk in the offseason -- or next season.  Or they'll trade him to some other team that is willing to overpay for him.  But next season -- or even in the offseason -- they'll feel more pressure to really negotiate as free agency gets closer.  I could be wrong, they may want to do a deal soon.  But if they don't try to get something of a sizable overpay for him this year then they won't really be doing their job.  They're terrible this year and they need to extract as much as they can from their best tradeable player before they feel the pressure of free agency to do a deal.  Frobby mentioned Erik Bedard, who got a very nice return for the Orioles, and I think Bedard was less than 2 years away from FA when that deal happened.  I'd love to be wrong about all this of course and see the O's get him next week for McKenna, Vavra and Akin.  

I hear ya. They may not be interested in trading him. Oh, well move on to the next option/team.

But your suggestion of a package earlier was ludicrous. First of all no team has a package anything close of Gunnar and Holiday plus Basallo to even offer in the first place. Second there is no way in this world that any player is worth that. Nobody is asking for that and nobody is getting that. You are talking about the top prospect heading into this season and the top one heading into next season.

Now if you said one Gunnar OR Holiday as a highlight to a trade package, yeah they might ask for that. But chances are they are not getting that because again that can't get anything close to that anywhere else.

So just to be clear "the moon" is not and will NEVER be Gunnar AND Holiday. That would be as ridiculous as asking for Grayson AND Adley. No one is asking that hight. And definitely not for Dylan Cease who has only ONE SINGULAR elite season on his resume.

In the real world the moon is 3 top 100 prospects for him. Again, no one is giving the CHI Sox more for Cease than the Padres gave up to get Soto. 

If they decide to wait until the offseason or next year's trade deadline, the price will only go down as he will have less years of team control.

It sounds like you either don't like Cease as a pitcher or believe in last season that much. OR you are afraid of a scenario where the Orioles "give away the store". - There's nothing wrong with the former. But the latter is just not based in reality and sound reasoning. There is NO SUCH SCENARIO where the Orioles can give away most of their young talent in a single trade. As a matter of fact, they could acquire Cease AND Eduardo Rodriguez and have MORE prospects in the top 100 than only TWO teams in the sport.

[Bemorewins]

For those of you who keep pointing to the Astros as an example of the path that you think that Elias is going to take, look at how they got there. Tanking - drafting - development - trades - letting some guys walk. 

Six years, 3 World Series appearances and 2 rings later, they now have ZERO top 100 prospects.

Do you think that they believe it was worth it?

[EddeeEddee]

6 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I hear ya. They may not be interested in trading him. Oh, well move on to the next option/team.

But your suggestion of a package earlier was ludicrous. First of all no team has a package anything close of Gunnar and Holiday plus Basallo to even offer in the first place. Second there is no way in this world that any player is worth that. Nobody is asking for that and nobody is getting that. You are talking about the top prospect heading into this season and the top one heading into next season.

Now if you said one Gunnar OR Holiday as a highlight to a trade package, yeah they might ask for that. But chances are they are not getting that because again that can't get anything close to that anywhere else.

So just to be clear "the moon" is not and will NEVER be Gunnar AND Holiday. That would be as ridiculous as asking for Grayson AND Adley. No one is asking that hight. And definitely not for Dylan Cease who has only ONE SINGULAR elite season on his resume.

In the real world the moon is 3 top 100 prospects for him. Again, no one is giving the CHI Sox more for Cease than the Padres gave up to get Soto. 

If they decide to wait until the offseason or next year's trade deadline, the price will only go down as he will have less years of team control.

It sounds like you either don't like Cease as a pitcher or believe in last season that much. OR you are afraid of a scenario where the Orioles "give away the store". - There's nothing wrong with the former. But the latter is just not based in reality and sound reasoning. There is NO SUCH SCENARIO where the Orioles can give away most of their young talent in a single trade. As a matter of fact, they could acquire Cease AND Eduardo Rodriguez and have MORE prospects in the top 100 than only TWO teams in the sport.

I doubt Gunnar and Holliday alone would get you Ichiro.  They're very highly rated prospects, but for now just that, prospects.  Plus, neither are pitchers.  And I think you're wrong to say teams can't close to those two anywhere else.  Other teams can offer more pitching than the O's easily.  I'll let you have the last word since we'll have to agree to disagree.

[EddeeEddee]

5 minutes ago, EddeeEddee said:

I doubt Gunnar and Holliday alone would get you Ichiro.  They're very highly rated prospects, but for now just that, prospects.  Plus, neither are pitchers.  And I think you're wrong to say teams can't close to those two anywhere else.  Other teams can offer more pitching than the O's easily.  I'll let you have the last word since we'll have to agree to disagree.

Sorry I meant Ohtani not Ichiro lol!

[Bemorewins]

57 minutes ago, EddeeEddee said:

Sorry I meant Ohtani not Ichiro lol!

Gunnar and Holiday couldn’t get you Ohtani? I don’t know what to say… I know that there has never been a player like Ohtani, so there’s that for your argument.

But when you say they’re just “prospects”. I don’t know what to do with that. You do know that prospects are the name of the game in baseball trades? We have more on them than anyone, we could get anyone available in the sport.

No player, not even Ohtani is worth 2 back to back number one prospects in the game. Now, I agree in order to get him, we would have to give up one of them PLUS probably 3 other top 100 prospects. And that haul would be unprecedented. And even after all that, we would have 5 to 6 top 100 prospects left.

But since I wasn’t talking about Ohtani, but Cease to begin with, I’m not sure what a Ohtani has to do with Cease or the CHI Sox?

It sounds like you don’t think it’s a good idea to trade prospects and that’s fine. But let’s not undervalue the worth of those prospects in this discussion. In modern baseball, prospects are worth their weight in gold. Just 1 top 5/10 prospect in the right package gets you just about anyone. No team is asking or getting 2 in any deal.

If you think I’m wrong, show me 1, 2 examples. It just doesn’t happen.

[sportsfan8703]

Holliday for Ohtani. Why not?  

[Just Regular]

70% of the time I think Ohtani stays.    The 30% of the times he goes my guess is a return around Westburg, Santander, Irvin is enough.

April and the AL Central being what they are, Dylan Cease and Lucas Giolito beat Minnesota in the next 1.25 days and CHW are just 6 games off the division lead.     #AutomaticBerth