What if Mateo and Urias are part of the future?

[backdoorslider]

Keep them until free agency or trade them. Both won't hit free agency until they are over 30. This organization is not the kind of organization that can hand out too many huge deals to guys who were already over 30. See Albert Belle, Chris Davis, Ubaldo Jimenez. 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, backdoorslider said:

Keep them until free agency or trade them. Both won't hit free agency until they are over 30. This organization is not the kind of organization that can hand out too many huge deals to guys who were already over 30. See Albert Belle, Chris Davis, Ubaldo Jimenez. 

They don’t have to hand out any huge deals to anyone who replaces them..in fact, they save a lot of money.

[TommyPickles]

1 hour ago, Bemorewins said:

Mateo right now looks like he has reached his superstar potential so you leave him alone and just let him keep crushing it until the time comes when Holiday has arrived.

Urias is a different case and should not be lumped into the category with Mateo. He is a very solid, dependable, steady ball player. But he has nowhere near the ceiling as Mateo. We however, have several minor league AAA infielders who are at his talent level or maybe even beyond. You have two options with Urias. - I) You take him and package him as part of a trade and then bring Ortiz or Westburg (which ever one you don’t trade along with Ortiz) and you bring them up to cover 2B. OR 2) [which would not be my preferred option] You trade Gunnar as part of a package to get the big pitching piece that you need. Then you allow Urias to man 3B until Mayo comes up and takes overs for him.

I mostly agree with this, Mateo is playing like an MVP candidate right now. Though Urias has been worth more rWAR in his career and I think his ceiling is a bit higher than he gets credit for. He was arguably the best defensive 3B in the AL last season while playing in his first full season. I think he could also bring value as a 2B who OPS's like .750-.775.

Urias (28)- 6.3 rWAR, 237 games, 857 PA

Mateo (27)- 5.1 rWAR, 285 games, 858 PA

and since I mentioned them in the OP, here's where Mora and Roberts were at after a similar amount of ABs in the majors:

Mora (29)- 3.9 rWAR, 326 games, 1,006 PA

Roberts (25)- 2.6 rWAR, 225 games, 953 PA 

[orioles22]

41 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

It’s sound like you really like Ortiz and think highly of him. I’m with you completely on Adley and Grayson being the only irreplaceable pieces in our org.

However, I think that we are going to need much more than a “solid starter” in order to advance in the postseason.

Now where I strongly disagree with you is on Norby’s place in the outfield or even DH for that matter. Our outfield is 2/3 full now. We will need to make a place for Cowser who is a much better/higher ranked prospect than Norby. As far as DH goes that’s Kejstad’s. Who again is a much better hitter/prospect than Norby. 

If we have to trade one of them, then I guess that could make a place for Norby. But even then, what happens to Westburg?

I don't know yet if Kjerstad is better than Norby, even if he is rated higher. We also don't even know if Mullins or Hays will be here long. It could be Cowser in center, Norby in left, Mayo in right and Kjerstad at DH/1B.

[Bahama O's Fan]

If they are a part of the long term plan, then I hope we do two things:

1. Open up the pocket book to pay them when necessary

2. Get GREAT value for those young guys in AAA when we trade them. 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

If they are a part of the long term plan, then I hope we do two things:

1. Open up the pocket book to pay them when necessary

2. Get GREAT value for those young guys in AAA when we trade them. 

What does “pay them when necessary” mean?  You mean sign these guys to long term extensions well into their 30s?

[owknows]

Mateo and Urias are looking like pretty great players.

Maybe better than what's coming.. maybe not.

The disadvantage they have regarding being part of the 5 year plan.. is measured in years of control.

Therefore.. if I were to wager.. you'll see them dealt... hopefully at their peak... for top 100 MiLB talent.

[Sanfran327]

This is the best problem we've had in many, many years. IMO, if we trade Mateo, we're looking to replace him right away. Nobody in the org is doing what he's doing. The only way you trade him is if you're absolutely that this is a short-term burst and he's going to have a major regression - soon. And if the O's think that, who else probably does? While it's been fun as hell to watch, even most of us think it could be a mirage. The rest of MLB probably feels the same way.

Urias needs to hit a little more consistently to be a valuable trade piece. Yes, he won the GG last year, but it seems people care less and less about superlatives these days. He won't return a big TOR piece or anything like that, but he could be more than enough to find our next Felix Bautista or Yennier Cano. I'd also prefer to hang onto him until he becomes too expensive for the production and we release or trade him. 

Moving either guy is too aggressive for me, but you might ask yourself what Tampa would do with either of them. Those guys would trade their own mothers if they thought it would improve the ball club.

[TommyPickles]

7 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

What does “pay them when necessary” mean?  You mean sign these guys to long term extensions well into their 30s?

For the record, my original post wasn't recommending we extend them. And I definitely understand your point that we have cheaper options than what their late arbitration years will be. But we do have Urias under team control through his age 32 season and Mateo under team control through his age 30 season.  

[Bemorewins]

7 minutes ago, orioles22 said:

I don't know yet if Kjerstad is better than Norby, even if he is rated higher. We also don't even know if Mullins or Hays will be here long. It could be Cowser in center, Norby in left, Mayo in right and Kjerstad at DH/1B.

That’s sounds like a rebuild. I thought we were done with that and trying to win? 

Some posters are complaining about Gunnar’s early season acclimation struggles, I would cringe at the possibility of installing 4 more rookies. 

But I imagine that you are not posing this possibility for this season. Still that outfield sounds like a steep downgrade especially defensively. I know some posters (not saying that you are) are on board with the continuous rebuilding/retooling so that we can stay “cheap”. 

I am not. I am a long suffering Orioles fan who has never seen a World Series in Baltimore. And most of the last 30 years have been pretty miserable to be honest. I have no interest in any approach that diminishes the odds of our chance a title, at the expense of saying an awful owner more money. I want the best players to play for the Orioles, not the cheapest ones. 

Some posters propose being like the Rays (not saying you personally) but I don’t want that because in the end they have 2 things I don’t want - no rings and no fans! I would much rather an outcome and approach of the Astros or Braves. If Mateo, Mullins, Hays, etc produce, they should stay especially when they aren’t even FA and we don’t have anything better. Now if/when the time comes for us to replace them and we have better that’s great (as in the projected case of Holliday eventually for Mateo). But until then we have the 3rd best record in the sport, but no elite starting pitching required to win in the Fall. I would hope that the approach would be to use the excess positional prospects to achieve this means, not replace good Major Leaguers with guys or MAYBE better or worse, just to save a few bucks.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, TommyPickles said:

For the record, my original post wasn't recommending we extend them. And I definitely understand your point that we have cheaper options than what their late arbitration years will be. But we do have Urias under team control through his age 32 season and Mateo under team control through his age 30 season.  

Yes we do…but what type of players will they be by then?  Will they be better than guys that are 5-8 years younger? 
 

I get the point of the thread. I get the idea that you don’t just toss these guys away. They are good players…maybe even more than good.

But you do have to play the odds and you do have to recognize the talent that is coming. 

[Bahama O's Fan]

14 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

What does “pay them when necessary” mean?  You mean sign these guys to long term extensions well into their 30s?

That depends on what the O's view as long term. If we keep them only until full arbitration, they will get more expensive. I guess I mean that they will need to pay them, so I hope they will open their wallets and not get cheap on the other positions on the roster. 

[Bemorewins]

The Orioles have a chance to compete for multiple World Series runs given the sheer level of talent that is within the org. I don’t want to see that ruined because we decide to go super cheap and decide to rebuild/reload or whatever you want to call it, every year. 

The way Mateo is playing now it would be insane to trade him, unless the goal is not to chase championships, which as a fan of this team having suffered this long, I cannot support that in any way. I serious struggle to understand that rational of any fan who lives in this community who is on board or okay with an approach that maximizes the owner’s profits of the team’s results. We deserve much better than that!

Sorry for the rant. But it’s frustrating sometimes to read fans/posters on here willing to settle for such a “low bar”. This is our GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY that costs us dearly in the last 5 years of extreme misery! We will probably never have more talent/young assets/prospects than we do now. I don’t want to see us mess this up. 

[backdoorslider]

6 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

The Orioles have a chance to compete for multiple World Series runs given the sheer level of talent that is within the org. I don’t want to see that ruined because we decide to go super cheap and decide to rebuild/reload or whatever you want to call it, every year. 

The way Mateo is playing now it would be insane to trade him, unless the goal is not to chase championships, which as a fan of this team having suffered this long, I cannot support that in any way. I serious struggle to understand that rational of any fan who lives in this community who is on board or okay with an approach that maximizes the owner’s profits of the team’s results. We deserve much better than that!

Sorry for the rant. But it’s frustrating sometimes to read fans/posters on here willing to settle for such a “low bar”. This is our GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY that costs us dearly in the last 5 years of extreme misery! We will probably never have more talent/young assets/prospects than we do now. I don’t want to see us mess this up. 

I definitely understand your point. I would prefer to keep him and let him walk during free agency. I would prefer to trade him over sign him in free agency. Look dude, this is the Orioles. This is Angelos. We simply cannot be handing out 20 plus million dollar deals to guys already in their 30s. We don't have that kind of payroll. We can't do it. So the hell with it, he's under team control until he's no longer under team control. Go for the title.

[orioles22]

No, I don't like the idea of a continuous rebuild, but even in the glory days you had Johnson moving for Grich and then Dauer eventually replacing Grich. I don't know if Hays or Mullins will be both be with the Orioles for the long-term, but i think the chances are good that Cowser will be as good or better.