When is the best time to call up rookies?

[Sports Guy]

This has been a conversation all year long.

The Orioles have, obviously, entered into their window of contention and it’s possible that the window will be open for quite some time.

There are a large faction of fans, not only on here, that feel the team is contending/winning, so you don’t mess with that.

Many of them believe that rookies tend to struggle (which isn’t always true) and that the team can’t afford to hope they do well.

Elias has slowed played some of the minor leaguers and, as a result, we know are coming up to a “log jam” of talented players ready to play at the highest level but with the window wide open, when do you play them?

Over the next year (meaning starting with today), we will see Holliday, Mayo, Fabian, Cowser, Westburg, Kjerstad, Ortiz and Norby all ready to be up here and all ready to perform (this assumes health and performance but as of now, all of them are trending in the right direction)

Now, some of them will be dealt but the reality is that Elias highly values these guys and came from an org that doesn’t spend money via FA. 

They also aren’t a team that wants to spend much right now and they have some vets that are about to get more and more expensive.

So, when is it right to do this because these decisions are here and they will be here for quite some time. 
 

What do you want to see and when do you want to see it?

 

[Moose Milligan]

Yesterday. 
 

I get gaming the service time clock, Super 2 and whatever. I’m fine with that and I know it’s part of the game. And if Elias wants to do that and deny that he does it, I’m fine with that. 
 

But that time has come and gone this year. And for guys that could contribute this year, I want them up now. 
 

Again, if Elias wants to game the clock next year, I’m fine with that, too, though I think some of these guys should probably break camp and go north for opening day. 
 

But to drag this **** into July is inexcusable. 

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Yesterday. 
 

I get gaming the service time clock, Super 2 and whatever. I’m fine with that and I know it’s part of the game. And if Elias wants to do that and deny that he does it, I’m fine with that. 
 

But that time has come and gone this year. And for guys that could contribute this year, I want them up now. 
 

Again, if Elias wants to game the clock next year, I’m fine with that, too, though I think some of these guys should probably break camp and go north for opening day. 
 

But to drag this **** into July is inexcusable. 

I’m with you…we have a nice cushion to start getting some of them up here. Even if they struggle, we should be able to be good enough and then once things start to improve with them, the ceiling should be raised.

[maybenxtyr]

Anytime should be the "right" time really.

 

I look at it like this... they're 8-7 in the last 15 games. They have 4 regulars that started the season with them that can be considered productive.

 

O'Hearn and Hicks have been a nice addition, but they're not everyday players. There's a roll for both of them moving forward.

 

Frazier and Mateo speak for themselves with their lack of production. They're the 2 that could easily be replaced. Hell, they could give Ortiz a week of solid starts and his production would almost have to be better than what they're getting.

 

The O's did very well building a cushion to start the season. They've been better record wise than the parts would indicate. NY, Toronto, Houston, LA, and Seattle all have teams capable of catching a sputtering team. I would bring up Cowser and Westburg today...if they ended up being the scapegoat for missing the postseason, they were not going to make it anyways. It's beyond time to start getting answers on what this team is going to be and look like moving forward.

[Aristotelian]

When the veterans are underperforming. In the case of Mateo and Frazier I would say now is the time. Ideally we could do it in a way that allows us to hold on to Frazier and Mateo.

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I’m with you…we have a nice cushion to start getting some of them up here. Even if they struggle, we should be able to be good enough and then once things start to improve with them, the ceiling should be raised.

That’s right, the positions that some of our prospects could fill, the guys on the ML team have set a preposterously low bar to hurdle. If Cowser or Westburg or Ortiz comes up and struggles, they can’t possibly be that much worse than Mateo, Mountcastle and Frazier. 

We can go off of what Elias did last year, promoting Gunnar in August. Perhaps that what he’ll do here. I’m not sure why he’d wait another 1.5-2 months but only he knows why. 
 

 

[Redfoot32]

It is unconscionable that we keep running Mateo and Frazier out there day in and day out.  Westburg, Ortiz, and Cowser have proven themselves.  Let them play, they have earned it.  This goes beyond baseball, this is almost becoming a moral dilemma.  What else do these players have to do?  Why keep driving your Ford Pinto when you have a brand new car with no miles waiting in the garage?  
 

I agree with other posters, this team could crumble quickly without an injection soon.

[Can_of_corn]

14 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

That’s right, the positions that some of our prospects could fill, the guys on the ML team have set a preposterously low bar to hurdle. If Cowser or Westburg or Ortiz comes up and struggles, they can’t possibly be that much worse than Mateo, Mountcastle and Frazier. 

We can go off of what Elias did last year, promoting Gunnar in August. Perhaps that what he’ll do here. I’m not sure why he’d wait another 1.5-2 months but only he knows why. 
 

 

So they'd still count as rookies for 2024?

[Too Tall]

15 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

When the veterans are underperforming. In the case of Mateo and Frazier I would say now is the time. Ideally we could do it in a way that allows us to hold on to Frazier and Mateo.

This. I'm tired of the Frazier OP and ready for changes. Either play Ortiz or send him back down and try someone else. The point has been made about Mateo and Frazier as bench pieces. Lester can go down to make room for someone else if Ortiz stays longer  and McKenna when Mullins is ready. This doesn't take care of the pitching/pen though!

[Moose Milligan]

9 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

So they'd still count as rookies for 2024?

Who cares?  

[2001OriolesFan]

This season is about the "lift off", which means being competitive in the division, making the playoff, getting the high ceiling prospects ready for MLB.  It is NOT about winning the WS. ...  Right now we are doing well and have a lot of good (not great) MLB players on board, who need to be cleared out to make room for the prospects.  IF we ignore doing that to our benefit, we will be wasting resources that we need.  Three unrecognized objectives right now are to obtain value for various players on the MLB roster in trades, continue development of the prospects at AAA and to start to filter in the high ceiling prospects without tanking the W/L record.

Mateo and Fraiser are 0.221 hitters. Mateo is a libability at bat and Fraiser is a light hitting FA next year.   McCann and Hicks are FA's next year and McCann has long term value to share catching, Hicks is a FA.  Both might want to stay her (someone else is paying their salaries) but they are blocking guys in AAA and AA. Both are available for trade as well.  Mullins, Santander are good outfielders but one of them could be trade to open up playing time for Cowser, Haskins, Rhodes and others.  McKenna, Vavra, Stowers are useful players who could be thrown into trades.   Why hasn't this started yet?

We are all impatient about the stockpile of talent in our farm system that is being "ignored". I think that it is NOT the time to be trading our veterans and prospects for pitching. It is not the time to be discarding (trade, drop, DFA, give away for peanuts) older veterans on the 26 man roster in order to bring up the baby birds. THOSE VET's HAVE TO go somewhere and get a return, or we are wasting part of our assets !!!. ... ..... The problem is that in MLB, this year, because of the expanded scheduling outside of the division and because of the increase in number of wild card teams, there are a lot of teams who are "still in it" and are holding onto trade pieces until the last moment.

 

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Who cares?  

Elias?

Who is the only person who gets a vote.

[Just Regular]

3 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Who cares?  

Well, Elias.    Based on the Julio Bonus pick slot value and Steve Cohen's 5X estimate on pool dollars real world value (a candor comment I think I generally believe), Cowser or Kjerstad as an overqualified 2024 Rookie of the Year is a $10M asset.     We'll see if Gunnar can run down his opponents....I believe there is still an award if he repeats Adley 2nd place as Gunnar was on Opening Day roster, Top 100 lists, etc.

I hope Cowser and Kjerstad are here yesterday too, but I think triangulation happening even though it will cost us something in September or later this year.

 

[Brian88]

When the Adam Frazier thread hits 100 pages. 

[7Mo]

I think depending on too many rookies at once is a valid concern.

At the same time, for as smart and detailed as Elias and Sig are, they had to see this coming, right? Couldn't you be very sure that Ortiz and Westburg were ready or at least very, very close to ready? I can't understand why one of Ortiz/Westburg isn't up and playing everyday along with Cowser. 

I'm also baffled about why a left handed hitter at 2B was so important. But if it's balancing the lineup, we now have a left handed hitting first baseman so maybe Ortiz/Westburg/Urias at second works now? Adding Cowser should make balancing even easier. 

I'm a big fan of Elias and Sig but running Mateo and Frazier every day and not giving playing time to Ortiz/Westburg and Cowser is baffling to me. 

And if you're not going to play "too many rookies" this year, what happens next year with Kjerstad, Mayo, Holliday, Fabian, etc?