Orioles calling up Westburg.

[yark14]

34 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

I don't need "hype" videos for every player.  Frankly I'd prefer they not give them to any player.  Is Westburg going to get a "Welcome to the show" shirt?  Was Ortiz's callup any less meaningful to him that we didn't get the video of him getting the news that he was called up?

Just creates unnecessary prospect class-status as far as I'm concerned.  I got it for Adley, he was the 1st and kind of represented a change.  But all the rest - if you're going to do this for some players but not others it makes it very clear where you stand with the organization.  

Give every player making their debut a hype video. It's a once in a lifetime event. Baseball is supposed to be fun.

[clapdiddy]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

It's worth noting that Westburg has really improved the consistency of his defense over all three positions. He's mainly played SS and 3B, with only 6 starts at 2B all season, so it makes me wonder if they plan to make Henderson the everyday SS, Westburg to 3B and still keep Frazier platooning with Urias.

Urias has hit righties well this year and has played a better 2B than Frazier, so perhaps he ends up there more often and Frazier becomes a valuable bench piece along with Mateo. That's what I would do.

This would make too much sense.  You put your best team on the field every day and have guys on the bench that you're not afraid to use.

[Tony-OH]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

I had been under the assumption that they valued Ortiz higher than Westburg with defense being the primary reason.

However, it’s possible they prefer to trade Ortiz as a SS than keep him as a second baseman (which is his long term role here because of Holliday).

I think the sense is that Henderson can handle SS right now and although he long term fits at 3B, Westburg has played a real solid 3B this season as well. Urias has improved this at 2B so the Westburg, Henderson, Urias infield may be the best offensive/defensive combo while also letting Ortiz continue to show his value by playing SS everyday in Norfolk. 

I do think Ortiz is a guy who is probably going to be a prime trade chip.

[24fps]

12 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

Other GM's aren't basing trade offers on PR videos when players are promoted.

I wasn't even remotely suggesting that, just that the treatment Ortiz and Stowers (so far) raises a red flag.  How large of one I couldn't say, but wouldn't it have been better to just leave them both in AAA where they've had some success and let other teams wonder if they can make the transition?  If it has been determined that they have no future value in the majors, then it follows that their remaining value is as part a trade - don't step on that and while you're at it, get on with it.

[wildcard]

11 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

That was my thought on what would happen. so some reason they have decided Ortiz is more of a spare part than top prospect so he goes back to the minors to play SS everyday. Maybe they looking to trade him and need him to play SS everyday to increase his value. 

The key to this making sense though is for Frazier to be moved to the bench. It will be interesting to see if that happens against the first right-handed starter that they face.

Isn't it really about who the O's want to keep as their long term players?

C - Adley

3B/SS - Gunnar

SS - Holliday

LF - Cowser

RF - Kjerstad

2B - Westburg?

Still need a 1B, CF and DH.    Mayo might be  1B/DH

So the rest of the guys fill in around that.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

7 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Isn't it really about who the O's want to keep as their long term players?

C - Adley

3B/SS - Gunnar

SS - Holliday

LF - Cowser

RF - Kjerstad

2B - Westburg?

Still need a 1B, CF and DH.    Mayo might be  1B/DH

So the rest of the guys fill in around that.

You could move Santander to 1B. I don't if he's the type of player Elias would sign to a contract once he hits free agency. Santander has been a steady productive bat for the Orioles.

[wildcard]

12 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

You could move Santander to 1B. I don't if he's the type of player Elias would sign to a contract once he hits free agency. Santander has been a steady productive bat for the Orioles.

With Cowser ready and Kjerstad coming in the next half season I don't think Elias is going to give Santander a 4 or 5 year contract.  That is what it will take to sign him IMO.

I think Santander is traded for pitching prospects in the off season.

Edited June 26, 2023 by wildcard

[Tony-OH]

20 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Isn't it really about who the O's want to keep as their long term players?

C - Adley

3B/SS - Gunnar

SS - Holliday

LF - Cowser

RF - Kjerstad

2B - Westburg?

Still need a 1B, CF and DH.    Mayo might be  1B/DH

So the rest of the guys fill in around that.

While I do think Elias has his eyes on sustained success longterm, the move happening now at the major league level and for winning this year IMHO. I do think the players you posted are the most likely long term players at those positions and you can add Mayo at 1B. While he's still just entering, Jud Fabian as to start being looked at as the long term CF if the Orioles move on from an expensive Mullins.

[osfan83]

27 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Isn't it really about who the O's want to keep as their long term players?

C - Adley

3B/SS - Gunnar

SS - Holliday

LF - Cowser

RF - Kjerstad

2B - Westburg?

Still need a 1B, CF and DH.    Mayo might be  1B/DH

So the rest of the guys fill in around that.

It should really be about how best to win the WS this year. When you have the 3rd best record in the majors at about the halfway mark of the year, you have a real shot at a title. I'm not saying mortgage the future by trading valuable prospects, but we should be putting the best players on the field now, whether or not they are part of our future.  

[wildcard]

3 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

While I do think Elias has his eyes on sustained success longterm, the move happening now at the major league level and for winning this year IMHO. I do think the players you posted are the most likely long term players at those positions and you can add Mayo at 1B. While he's still just entering, Jud Fabian as to start being looked at as the long term CF if the Orioles move on from an expensive Mullins.

IMO it not so much the salary as it is the long term contract that would be required to sign Santander, Hays and Mullins.   4 or 5 years of any of these guys increases the risk of them not performing over the term of the contract.

Santander traded after the 2023 season and Hays and Mullins traded after the 2024 season.   That is right before their walk years.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

Just now, osfan83 said:

It should really be about how best to win the WS this year. When you have the 3rd best record in the majors at about the halfway mark of the year, you have a real shot at a title. I'm not saying mortgage the future by trading valuable prospects, but we should be putting the best players on the field now, whether or not they are part of our future.  

I wouldn't want to trade any top prospects for a rental, but if you can land an established pitcher who is under control through at least 2024 then Elias needs to consider it. 

This team needs a TOR starter for a playoff run and you can't expect John Means to that guy this year. It's going to be a balancing act between competing this year without mortgaging the future.

Joey Ortiz at this point seems like an obvious trade chip given the middle infield depth in the organization.

[wildcard]

3 minutes ago, osfan83 said:

It should really be about how best to win the WS this year. When you have the 3rd best record in the majors at about the halfway mark of the year, you have a real shot at a title. I'm not saying mortgage the future by trading valuable prospects, but we should be putting the best players on the field now, whether or not they are part of our future.  

Ok, and the long term players may be the team's best players if they are ready  for the majors.

The discussion was about Ortiz not being treated like Gunnar, Adley and now maybe Westburg.    If  those three players are consider long term players and they are better than what is  in the majors they probably need to be treated special.

If Ortiz goes to AAA and ranks then maybe he make Elias think about if he belongs with the team long term.

[wildcard]

46 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

I wouldn't want to trade any top prospects for a rental, but if you can land an established pitcher who is under control through at least 2024 then Elias needs to consider it. 

This team needs a TOR starter for a playoff run and you can't expect John Means to that guy this year. It's going to be a balancing act between competing this year without mortgaging the future.

Joey Ortiz at this point seems like an obvious trade chip given the middle infield depth in the organization.

Do you really think the O's can get a Starter that is better than pitching in the low 3.00s ERA?   Wells, Kremer and Bradish have been doing that for almost last two months.  

Edited June 26, 2023 by wildcard

[TheWall]

28 minutes ago, wildcard said:

With Cowser ready and Kjerstad coming in the next half season I don't think Elias is going to give Santander a 4 or 5 year contract.  That is what it will take to sign him IMO.

I think Santander is traded for pitching prospects in the off season.

It's totally possible we look to trade Santander this offseason, but I would be absolutely shocked if any team gave him a 5 year contract. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

Do you really think the O's can get a Starter that is better than pitching in the low 3.00s ERA.   Wells, Kremer and Bradish have been doing that for almost last two months.  

They've been decent, but no one considers them as a true number one pitcher.  Maybe that opinion changes by September, but the starting rotation would benefit from adding a quality arm.

I don't like the idea of Irvin starting every fifth day even if you're satisfied with a top three of Well, Kremer and Bradish. The trade market doesn't seem great, but that's on Elias to identify any potential trade partners.