What do we do about Jorge Mateo?

[Moose Milligan]

4 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:

  Can you even imagine? 

I can!

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, dzorange said:

It was sarcasm

Well played.

[dzorange]

12 minutes ago, Mooreisbetter27 said:

TBF, some clown actually though he'd OPS over 1.000

The funny this is if that one person is the extreme on the high end, then on the low the one person (@sportsguy) is the extreme as well. And also correct (sub .700 OPS which Mateo isn't even remotely close to right now).

Edited July 26, 2023 by dzorange

[RZNJ]

Mateo looked all world in April.  I thought that guy could end the season with an .800 OPS or better.  Looks foolish now.  He was hitting for power and now he has very little even when he does connect.  He was staying closed and ambushing inner half curves.   That all stopped.  Ok, I and others have to acknowledge that we goofed on Mateo.   What hurts even more are the plays he’s not making.   Last night was the culmination of some tough plays at the end of games where you’d expect him to make some if not most of those plays.   He’s starting to look style over substance defensively even though he’s still above average overall.  He’s not going anywhere.   Hyde and Elias have shown they don’t give up on their guys as easily as we do.   I just know that defensively I’d be a lot more comfortable with Henderson or Ortiz especially late in a game and offensively it’s no contest between the 3.  Mateo is by far the worst.

[dzorange]

5 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Mateo looked all world in April.  I thought that guy could end the season with an .800 OPS or better.  Looks foolish now.  He was hitting for power and now he has very little even when he does connect.  He was staying closed and ambushing inner half curves.   That all stopped.  Ok, I and others have to acknowledge that we goofed on Mateo.   What hurts even more are the plays he’s not making.   Last night was the culmination of some tough plays at the end of games where you’d expect him to make some if not most of those plays.   He’s starting to look style over substance defensively even though he’s still above average overall.  He’s not going anywhere.   Hyde and Elias have shown they don’t give up on their guys as easily as we do.   I just know that defensively I’d be a lot more comfortable with Henderson or Ortiz especially late in a game and offensively it’s no contest between the 3.  Mateo is by far the worst.

Easier to not give up on guys when you're not 20+ games above .500 and competing for a division title. Despite more limited playing time lately, he's been well below a 0.0 WAR since his hot start. The O's have guys that can play there. I personally think Mateo will be gone by the deadline. Mateo's defense is not worth giving less playing time to some combination of Westburg, Frazier and Urias (and possibly Ortiz although I think he's trade bait and is unproven anyways) along with Gunnar.

Westburg at third, Gunnar at SS and Urias/Frazier at second is probably the best defensive configuration they can have anyways. Even with Mateo available.

Edited July 26, 2023 by dzorange

[wildcard]

22 minutes ago, dzorange said:

Has Cano really been that ineffective lately? 

Is Wells tired or is he just not actually as good as he's been this year? It's just a couple of bad starts. He's not an ace.

Cano has let his arm slot drop probably because of tiredness and it is flattening out his pitches with less movement.

Wells?  We don't know yet but he may be following what he did last year when he had a good 1st half.  Last year he was injured in the 2nd half.  They may need to lessen his load.   Even move him to the pen for a while.   

His next start or two will probably be good indicators.

[Billy F-Face3]

I recommend a sports psychologist to Jorge Mateo as one last ditch Hail Mary effort to salvage his shattered confidence.

[Tony-OH]

If you can not count on Mateo's defense, and clearly when he's not playing everyday you can't, I'm not sure what his role is on this team besides pinch runner.

Mateo had the same issue defensively when he was sub in SD and with the Orioles his first year when he got moved around a bit. 

Like some guy are not good bench hitters because they need regular at bats to have success, I think we're seeing the same thing with Mateo's defense. 

Last night, the fact that he did not steal in the 9th also tells me may not be fully healthy. They either need to IL him with a pothole injury or see if they can trade/DFA-trade him for a C-level relief pitching prospect that doesn't require being put on the 40-man.

It's time. 

As for Ortiz, while I'd rather him get pretty regular PAs, he can help this team at least defensively in Mateo's role. You also can start him at SS, Gunnar over to 3B, and Westburg at 2B. This also allows the team to give Henderson more days off to keep him fresh for September/October.

Westburg/Urias and Frazier have to lose some PAs for Ortiz get some but that's ok. For defense alone Ortiz needs to be up here.

[Tony-OH]

6 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Cano has let his arm slot drop probably because of tiredness and it is flattening out his pitches with less movement.

Wells?  We don't know yet but he may be following what he did last year when he had a good 1st half.  Last year he was injured in the 2nd half.  They may need to lessen his load.   Even move him to the pen for a while.   

His next start or two will probably be good indicators.

Not according to statcast release points. I know not everyone saw my analysis of him but Ben keeps saying something that the statcast data does not suggest. It's location mainly for Cano has batters have adjusted and are not missing those middle-middle sinkers even with the movement.

[Osornot]

11 hours ago, Frobby said:

Adam Frazier has a league average OPS that is above average for a 2B.   He does a lot of situational things well.  Mateo is a guy you can bring in late in the game to blow a key defensive play.

I agree but, then again, I have never been a Frazier hater - not necessarily as a starter though.  Mateo? I have no idea if he is injured and trying to play through it but he seems a bit disengaged. He realizes that he may not be "the man" going forward. 

 

I found out afterward that he may have an injury but not attempting to steal last night was excruciating to see - every pitch was "ok, he is going on this one..."  When I saw Gunnar being replaced I cringed.  

 

[Bird Lady]

There is a double edged sword with Hyde. The same devotion to his players that brings out high level performances no one expects, also leads to him refusing to recognize when a player has sank to such a low level performance that steps need to be taken. I almost wince when Mateo does get a hit, because I know that has bought him more starts, and that is not the best thing for the team in the long run.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

You must not have been reading this board.

Hell, most people on this site thought he was going to post an 800+ OPS after the way he started the year.

No, not most.  Slightly less than half.

Interestingly, even ZiPS had Mateo projected to finish 2023 at .768 after his hot first month.  So, this wasn’t just some irrational reaction among diehard Orioles fans.  It just doesn’t happen that fundamentally terrible hitters put up a month of 1.062 OPS, and once a month like that is in the books, it’s damned hard to drag your OPS down to terrible levels.  

I would venture a guess that the differential between Mateo’s 1.062 April and his .316 May might be the largest month-to-month OPS fluctuation in the history of MLB for a guy with 75+ PA in each month.  
 

[Number5]

52 minutes ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

I recommend a sports psychologist to Jorge Mateo as one last ditch Hail Mary effort to salvage his shattered confidence.

[Billy F-Face3]

47 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Last night, the fact that he did not steal in the 9th also tells me may not be fully healthy.

I had a similar thought. My intuition is screaming at me that when Jorge got cleated just below the knee, under nirmal circumstances he would have exited the game and had a rest day. But it looked like he was insisting on staying in the game because he knows he is on borrowed time and he (correctly) fears for his job security. 

I think he is hiding how severe the pain of his injury might be. I've seen football players blow out their knee by getting hit in the same manner that Mateo got spiked on Monday.

[Number5]

50 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

If you can not count on Mateo's defense, and clearly when he's not playing everyday you can't, I'm not sure what his role is on this team besides pinch runner.

I'm not sure he's even effective as a pinch runner right now.  He was on first in a situation that screamed for a stolen base last night (or was in Monday?) and didn't try to steal.