Cease vs everyone else

[Number5]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’ve said already that I’d prefer Valdez to Cease if the return requested were equal.  But, I doubt the return requested would be equal.  

Is that a yes?  I'd offer that for Valdez way before I'd offer it for Cease.  I'm nervous about the proposed trades I'm seeing thrown around for Cease.  I don't see it.  I'd be hesitant to offer Cowser and Norby for Cease, but I might do it, and I'd pretty much draw the line there.  Seems like most of what I read on here and hear about the White Sox boards are for considerably more.  I'm hoping Elias isn't thinking about giving up a lot for Cease.  Especially if we can get Valdez.  I just somehow think that maybe Houston sees more eye-to-eye with Elias on the values of prospects.  I just get a good feeling about our chances for a fair trade with Houston - and Valdez fits our team and our stadium better, IMO.

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, Number5 said:

Is that a yes?  I'd offer that for Valdez way before I'd offer it for Cease.  I'm nervous about the proposed trades I'm seeing thrown around for Cease.  I don't see it.  I'd be hesitant to offer Cowser and Norby for Cease, but I might do it, and I'd pretty much draw the line there.  Seems like most of what I read on here and hear about the White Sox boards are for considerably more.  I'm hoping Elias isn't thinking about giving up a lot for Cease.  Especially if we can get Valdez.  I just somehow think that maybe Houston sees more eye-to-eye with Elias on the values of prospects.  I just get a good feeling about our chances for a fair trade with Houston - and Valdez fits our team and our stadium better, IMO.

Yes.  Agree with a preference for Valdez.  However, Houston’s needs are a lot different than Chicago’s so I doubt the package Houston would want would resemble what Chicago might want for Cease.  Also, as a contending team, Houston can benefit a lot from keeping Valdez, whereas Chicago really needs to trade Cease.   So, I think Houston’s price will be both different and higher.

[Number5]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

Yes.  Agree with a preference for Valdez.  However, Houston’s needs are a lot different than Chicago’s so I doubt the package Houston would want would resemble what Chicago might want for Cease.  Also, as a contending team, Houston can benefit a lot from keeping Valdez, whereas Chicago really needs to trade Cease.   So, I think Houston’s price will be both different and higher.

I thought I read that Houston's issue is the payroll and they are motivated to make a move.  No?  Another positive with Houston is that they may be receptive to some MLB talent coming back, so they aren't locked into a prospects-only deal.  A more creative deal can probably be worked with them than the White Sox, IMO.  

[Frobby]

6 minutes ago, Number5 said:

I thought I read that Houston's issue is the payroll and they are motivated to make a move.  No?  Another positive with Houston is that they may be receptive to some MLB talent coming back, so they aren't locked into a prospects-only deal.  A more creative deal can probably be worked with them than the White Sox, IMO.  

I’d imagine the O’s are talking to them.  Obviously though, if Houston is trying to save cash they’re still looking for younger players, even if not prospects.  

[Number5]

5 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’d imagine the O’s are talking to them.  Obviously though, if Houston is trying to save cash they’re still looking for younger players, even if not prospects.  

MLBTR arb. estimate for Valdez $12.1 million.  A trade that includes, say, Mateo ($2.9 million arb. est.) or Urias ($2million arb. est) coupled with someone like Cowser and a lesser prospect may make good sense to them and saves them quite a bit in salary.  Win-win.  Suits our needs much better than what is being talked about with Chicago.

[RZNJ]

5 minutes ago, Number5 said:

MLBTR arb. estimate for Valdez $12.1 million.  A trade that includes, say, Mateo ($2.9 million arb. est.) or Urias ($2million arb. est) coupled with someone like Cowser and a lesser prospect may make good sense to them and saves them quite a bit in salary.  Win-win.  Suits our needs much better than what is being talked about with Chicago.

If the motivation is money why would Houston take two fringy players totaling 5M back in a trade?

[Frobby]

6 minutes ago, Number5 said:

MLBTR arb. estimate for Valdez $12.1 million.  A trade that includes, say, Mateo ($2.9 million arb. est.) or Urias ($2million arb. est) coupled with someone like Cowser and a lesser prospect may make good sense to them and saves them quite a bit in salary.  Win-win.  Suits our needs much better than what is being talked about with Chicago.

Doesn’t strike me as a deal Houston would do.  But if they would, we should be all over it.  

[Number5]

Just now, Frobby said:

Doesn’t strike me as a deal Houston would do.  But if they would, we should be all over it.  

Maybe include McDermott.  Point is there is room for discussion, and the Astros may view a quantity deal as helping them, since their farm is so depleted.  I think Houston recognizes that our farm is good not only at the very top.  They recognize things like what Hernais has provided Oakland.  One MLB player with several prospects may work.  It just seems like there's a lot of points of discussion with Houston.  I'm not sure if the White Sox are talking the same language that Elias is, at least that's the feeling I get.  Bottom line is I'd certainly fully explore the Valdez possibilities before I'd start offering multiple top 50 prospects for Cease.

[RZNJ]

12 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Doesn’t strike me as a deal Houston would do.  But if they would, we should be all over it.  

Again, it’s posters thinking who they want to trade versus what the other team would really want.  If the idea is to shed salary you don’t take back two bench players making 5M.

[Number5]

3 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Again, it’s posters thinking who they want to trade versus what the other team would really want.  If the idea is to shed salary you don’t take back two bench players making 5M.

I wasn't saying both.  I was saying one of them.  And Mateo and Urias are really good bench players, don't you think?

[OriolesMagic83]

3 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Again, it’s posters thinking who they want to trade versus what the other team would really want.  If the idea is to shed salary you don’t take back two bench players making 5M.

No way is Houston doing Valdez as a salary dump.  Probably 28 maybe 27 teams would trade for Valdez and not worry about his $12 million salary.  I would guess that the only impact is that Houston would not take back an O player w/ a higher salary like Santander. 

[RZNJ]

8 minutes ago, Number5 said:

I wasn't saying both.  I was saying one of them.  And Mateo and Urias are really good bench players, don't you think?

I misread your post. Sorry.  Still, Houston’s farm system is depleted.   They are going to want to maximize the young talent coming back whereas you seem to want to include Mateo or Urias to lessen the young talent we would be sending.

[RZNJ]

12 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

No way is Houston doing Valdez as a salary dump.  Probably 28 maybe 27 teams would trade for Valdez and not worry about his $12 million salary.  I would guess that the only impact is that Houston would not take back an O player w/ a higher salary like Santander. 

12M isn’t a lot but it’s been reported that the motivation on Houston’s part is financial.   That doesn’t make it a salary dump.  They want value back.

Edited December 23, 2023 by RZNJ

[Number5]

10 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I misread your post. Sorry.  Still, Houston’s farm system is depleted.   They are going to want to maximize the young talent coming back whereas you seem to want to include Mateo or Urias to lessen the young talent we would be sending.

Definitely worth discussing.  My point is there are numerous angles that might work with Houston, and Valdez is a better target than Cease, anyway.  Chicago seems to want multiple top-rated prospects plus.  I'm not sure they look at the value of the entirety of the farm, but I get the feeling Houston does, or at least they may see things more like Elias does.  I like the fit of a possible Valdez trade with Houston from several perspectives.  Maybe we won't be able to work a deal, but it sure looks like something worth exploring.

[Billy F-Face3]

I would NOT trade Cowser for Cease. But I would for Valdez or Burnes. (This assumes Cowser being the headliner of a multiple player package.)

I'm going to move the Valdez discussion to the other thread because anything else and this thread is..