What about Mayo?

[Earl Buck]

There is massive potential in Mayo’s bat. No question.

If the 2024 lineup was constructed solely on expected 2024 offense production, would Mayo be a lock as a starter?

[Frobby]

Nice defensive play by Mayo yesterday, snaring a hard-hit grounder and making a strong throw to 2B for a force play.

[IPlayGM]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Nice defensive play by Mayo yesterday, snaring a hard-hit grounder and making a strong throw to 2B for a force play.

Here is my wonder: if Mayo proves he can play an adequate 3B, does it really matter? I guess it does if Basallo can’t stick at C, but isn’t the best combo that we have:

Mayo 1B

Holliday 2B

Henderson SS

Westburg 3B

I guess it gives us more flexibility but this is always how I have seen it playing out. If Holliday improves at short and Gunnar gets bigger/slower you can always jumble the 3 up and put Westburg at 2nd….

[Can_of_corn]

8 minutes ago, IPlayGM said:

Here is my wonder: if Mayo proves he can play an adequate 3B, does it really matter? I guess it does if Basallo can’t stick at C, but isn’t the best combo that we have:

Mayo 1B

Holliday 2B

Henderson SS

Westburg 3B

I guess it gives us more flexibility but this is always how I have seen it playing out. If Holliday improves at short and Gunnar gets bigger/slower you can always jumble the 3 up and put Westburg at 2nd….

How is that better than

Mountcastle 1B

Holliday 2B

Henderson SS

Mayo 3B?

Westburg has a career OPS+ of 100, why would you just assume he's a better bet than Mountcastle?

[Frobby]

8 minutes ago, IPlayGM said:

Here is my wonder: if Mayo proves he can play an adequate 3B, does it really matter? I guess it does if Basallo can’t stick at C, but isn’t the best combo that we have:

Mayo 1B

Holliday 2B

Henderson SS

Westburg 3B

I guess it gives us more flexibility but this is always how I have seen it playing out. If Holliday improves at short and Gunnar gets bigger/slower you can always jumble the 3 up and put Westburg at 2nd….

I happen to like that alignment, but there are dozens of permutations of how this could all work out, depending on how good our young guys turn out to be both offensively and defensively, who (if anyone) gets traded, etc.  So the better Mayo plays at 3B, the more options we have.  Personally I don’t think he’ll play much 3B if he’s only “adequate” there.   (My interpretation of “adequate” is somewhat below league but not in Mark Reynolds/Wilson Betemit territory.)  I think Elias and Hyde are aiming for higher than that.

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

How is that better than

Mountcastle 1B

Holliday 2B

Henderson SS

Mayo 3B?

Westburg has a career OPS+ of 100, why would you just assume he's a better bet than Mountcastle?

It’s all TBD.   But if Westburg is a better 3B than Mayo, that’s also part of the equation.   Personally, I don’t know if we’ve seen Mountcastle’s ceiling as a hitter, and I definitely don’t think we’ve seen Westburg’s.  They’re different styles of hitters, but I’m not ready to say who’ll be the better overall hitter long term.  

[forphase1]

10 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

How is that better than

Mountcastle 1B

Holliday 2B

Henderson SS

Mayo 3B?

Westburg has a career OPS+ of 100, why would you just assume he's a better bet than Mountcastle?

At this point I feel we know what Mountcastle is.   A very flawed but decent MLB player.   His 114 OPS+ clearly isn't bad,  but nor is it elite.   There is no guarantee that Westburg will be better long term,  but that isn't the whole question.   If Mayo can't cut it at 3rd, or at least not in comparison to those others we've got gunning for that position,  then the better comparison is Mayo versus Mountcastle.  And in that case I do feel Mayo will be at better hitter.  Mountcastles time on this team is limited I think. 

[billhatf]

From what I've seen of him live, Mayo is definitely better than adequate at 3rd base.   I'd say he's a good major league 3B.   Definitely a middle-of-the-order bat.  

[Frobby]

7 minutes ago, billhatf said:

From what I've seen of him live, Mayo is definitely better than adequate at 3rd base.   I'd say he's a good major league 3B.   Definitely a middle-of-the-order bat.  

How much have you seen of him?   

[Can_of_corn]

14 minutes ago, Frobby said:

It’s all TBD.   But if Westburg is a better 3B than Mayo, that’s also part of the equation.   Personally, I don’t know if we’ve seen Mountcastle’s ceiling as a hitter, and I definitely don’t think we’ve seen Westburg’s.  They’re different styles of hitters, but I’m not ready to say who’ll be the better overall hitter long term.  

Which is fine, and reasonable and something I agree with.

I was just curious why they were assuming a 25 year old with a career OPS+ of 100 was a better choice than a 27 year old with a career OPS+ 114.

I've stated my preference that Mayo sticks at third and Westburg becomes a super utility that gets a starter's amount of at bats playing infield and outfield both.

[Can_of_corn]

10 minutes ago, forphase1 said:

At this point I feel we know what Mountcastle is.   A very flawed but decent MLB player.   His 114 OPS+ clearly isn't bad,  but nor is it elite.   There is no guarantee that Westburg will be better long term,  but that isn't the whole question.   If Mayo can't cut it at 3rd, or at least not in comparison to those others we've got gunning for that position,  then the better comparison is Mayo versus Mountcastle.  And in that case I do feel Mayo will be at better hitter.  Mountcastles time on this team is limited I think. 

Everyone's time is limited.

I think Mayo and Westburg are more likely to be members of the 2026 club but I'd rather not rush to move Mayo off third.

[Just Regular]

It matters if you think there is a significant upside gap between Westburg and Mayo.

I agree if you feel good about Westburg as an everyday player the pressure on Mayo's glove is less.    

Clay Davenport's six-year forecasts basically envision Mayo as a 3-win player and Westburg as a 2-win player.

Somewhere around that range is a tipping point where Sigbots gain inner peace letting a player play 155 games.     I think Mayo might be that, and Westburg isn't.

[Frobby]

11 minutes ago, forphase1 said:

At this point I feel we know what Mountcastle is.   A very flawed but decent MLB player.   His 114 OPS+ clearly isn't bad,  but nor is it elite.   

I think this is probably right, but I’m interested to see if he’s able to minimize some of his flaws this year.  He seemed to be making some progress in the second half last year, though it could have just been a prolonged hot streak.  Jury’s still out a little IMO.   

As mentioned, I also think Westburg has a lot more in the tank than he showed during his decent major league debut. 
 

[Since1984]

21 minutes ago, Frobby said:

It’s all TBD.   But if Westburg is a better 3B than Mayo, that’s also part of the equation.   Personally, I don’t know if we’ve seen Mountcastle’s ceiling as a hitter, and I definitely don’t think we’ve seen Westburg’s.  They’re different styles of hitters, but I’m not ready to say who’ll be the better overall hitter long term.  

I believe Westburg will be a good but light version of a Bergman type player. Want to see Mayo play at the MLB level before making his comparison 

[IPlayGM]

25 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Which is fine, and reasonable and something I agree with.

I was just curious why they were assuming a 25 year old with a career OPS+ of 100 was a better choice than a 27 year old with a career OPS+ 114.

I've stated my preference that Mayo sticks at third and Westburg becomes a super utility that gets a starter's amount of at bats playing infield and outfield both.

Your point on Mountcastle is fair. I like the guys with more OBP and better ABs and tend to think that Westburg will improve his stats since it was his first year in the bigs and that wasn’t even a full year. I hope Mountcastle reaches his potential or maybe just stays healthy because I would probably agree with you.