The Kjerstad/Cowser spring competition

[DirtyBird]

28 minutes ago, Since1984 said:

The only thing I do not like about Santander DH’ing is his OPS drops .100 in that role, in 2023.

If he can't figure out how to perform as DH, there are capable replacements waiting.

[btdart20]

1 hour ago, Orioles0615 said:

I still say platoon Hays and Cowser. It gets boring watching Hays ground out to short over and over against righties 

Hays is a career .738 vs RHP.  OPS+ of 97.  2023 was stronger but with a fairly high Babip. You may be right, but Hays is league average or better vs RHP.

It plays to Cowser's strengths though.  

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, btdart20 said:

Hays is a career .738 vs RHP.  OPS+ of 97.  2023 was stronger but with a fairly high Babip. You may be right, but Hays is league average or better vs RHP.

It plays to Cowser's strengths though.  

No matter who makes the team they aren’t going to straight platoon Hays at the start of the season.  I’d expect Cowser or Kjerstad, assuming one makes the team, to get one, two at the most, starts per week in LF.   

[Frobby]

Platooning is harder to do these days, with the starter often exiting after 2 times through the lineup.  Often you lose the platoon advantage in the later innings and have few if any good pinch hitting options late.  Hence, most platooners have pretty extreme splits.  Hays really doesn’t.  A league average split for a RHB is 95 OPS+ vs. RHP, 107 vs. LHP.   Hays is 97/107 for his career.  

[btdart20]

@RZNJ @Frobby Agreed.  We can't platoon every position.  And platooning the traditionally bat-first position of 1B hamstrings flexibility elsewhere (Tampa model notwithstanding).

[Orioles0615]

4 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

@RZNJ @Frobby Agreed.  We can't platoon every position.  And platooning the traditionally bat-first position of 1B hamstrings flexibility elsewhere (Tampa model notwithstanding).

We can't but don't think Brandon Hyde won't try

[sportsfan8703]

How will Cowser's defense look in ST?  Will he be more aggressive at the plate?  

[rm5678]

Cowser and Stowers have both looked great so far. There will be some tough decisions to make when it's time to set the opening day roster.

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, rm5678 said:

Cowser and Stowers have both looked great so far. There will be some tough decisions to make when it's time to set the opening day roster.

Let's hope they both look great when that time comes.

[24fps]

Kjerstad "only" has 337 AAA PA's so I can see that being used as a pretext to send him down at the beginning of the season.  It's still early but it's looking like Cowser has found another gear and he has a full year of AAA time banked.  Stowers has 783 AAA PA's but I don't see a path to the majors for him in Baltimore regardless of how well he does in spring training; I hope he does well anyway so he can get traded. 

Out of the three, my money is on Cowser heading north.

[Just Regular]

11 hours ago, Since1984 said:

The only thing I do not like about Santander DH’ing is his OPS drops .100 in that role, in 2023.

If Beating the DH Penalty is a skill Santander can learn, it would be very favorable for extending his high earning years.    

[Brooks The Great]

15 hours ago, btdart20 said:

@RZNJ @Frobby Agreed.  We can't platoon every position.  And platooning the traditionally bat-first position of 1B hamstrings flexibility elsewhere (Tampa model notwithstanding).

I'm on the same page. Platooning is great if you're poor, like the Rays. They pull it off well because of their analytics, development, and some minor league depth. But they do it because they are a small market, low budget team. 

Players get platooned because they obviously have more pronounced flaws from one side of the plate. But the goal of any team should be to have as many star players at as many positions as possible in order to win a World Series. Star players - or any valuable player - aren't going to get platooned. The Braves and Dodgers are examples of having star players at almost every position, and the Orioles have the talent to be on the Braves/Dodgers side of the platooning spectrum this season. On the opposite side of the Rays.

Hyde and Elias really irked me last season because they loved platooning mediocre vets like Frazier, Mateo, Hicks, and O'Hearn (yes, Hicks and O'Hearn produced for stretches, but I believe those were merely lucky/hot small sample sizes) when they had several talented prospects at their disposal who not only may have outproduced those vets in the short-term, but could have also gained some valuable experience to establish themselves as non-platooning stars/valuable players in the medium-to-long-term.

I'm sure someone will point out that the team won 101 games last season as a reason for why Hyde and Elias platooning was successful. But to me, maximizing your talent is always the most efficient approach to winning games, and Hyde and Elias didn't do that as well as they could have last season (and in 2022 as well, when Jordan Westburg could have helped the Orioles make more of a push to the playoffs by replacing Rougned Odor).

Edited March 1 by Brooks The Great

[Frobby]

I have nothing against platooning, it just doesn’t work as well as it did in the days of Roenicke and Lowenstein, for two reasons:

1.   The starting pitchers don’t pitch as long.  In 1983, starters averaged 6.3 IP/start; now it’s 5.1.   

4.  Benches are shorter.   In 1983 teams had 14-15 position players on their roster and only 10-11 pitchers; now it’s usually 13 and 13,  

So before, in a typical game you’d see start pinch hitting for platoon guys in the 7th inning if the other team started switching the handedness of the pitcher.  That was probably the only time that spot in the lineup would come up again, but if not, and the opponent switched the handedness of the pitcher again, there was still plenty of other bench bats to go to.   Roenicke/Lowensteib/Ayala, or Lowenstein/Roenicke/Dwyer.   But today, you’re having to switch out platoon guys in the 6th inning on average, guaranteeing that those batters will come up again later in the game, and you have fewer bench guys available to switch out in the late innings.  

So, does this mean teams can’t make platoon?  No.  But they can’t do as much of it, and it isn’t as effective as it used to be.   

 

[Sports Guy]

10 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I have nothing against platooning, it just doesn’t work as well as it did in the days of Roenicke and Lowenstein, for two reasons:

1.   The starting pitchers don’t pitch as long.  In 1983, starters averaged 6.3 IP/start; now it’s 5.1.   

4.  Benches are shorter.   In 1983 teams had 14-15 position players on their roster and only 10-11 pitchers; now it’s usually 13 and 13,  

So before, in a typical game you’d see start pinch hitting for platoon guys in the 7th inning if the other team started switching the handedness of the pitcher.  That was probably the only time that spot in the lineup would come up again, but if not, and the opponent switched the handedness of the pitcher again, there was still plenty of other bench bats to go to.   Roenicke/Lowensteib/Ayala, or Lowenstein/Roenicke/Dwyer.   But today, you’re having to switch out platoon guys in the 6th inning on average, guaranteeing that those batters will come up again later in the game, and you have fewer bench guys available to switch out in the late innings.  

So, does this mean teams can’t make platoon?  No.  But they can’t do as much of it, and it isn’t as effective as it used to be.   

 

I don’t think you have to platoon as much as the team should just play a lot of different players until these guys establish themselves. Hays, Mullins and Santander’s days are numbered. Mountcastle is likely as well.

But as you pointed out, it’s not guarantee the younger players just come in and outperform them(or as well)

However, that doesn’t mean you don’t start playing these kids either. They don’t have anything left to prove in the minors (well maybe Holliday does..maybe) but the others don’t. Having them languish in the minors when they aren’t really being challenged isn’t that helpful either.

So, do both. Have them up here and play 3-4 times a week. If they perform, they take more and more time away from the vets. If not, they keep working at it up here and the vets hold onto the majority of the playing time.

 

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

I don’t think you have to platoon as much as the team should just play a lot of different players until these guys establish themselves. Hays, Mullins and Santander’s days are numbered. Mountcastle is likely as well.

But as you pointed out, it’s not guarantee the younger players just come in and outperform them(or as well)

However, that doesn’t mean you don’t start playing these kids either. They don’t have anything left to prove in the minors (well maybe Holliday does..maybe) but the others don’t. Having them languish in the minors when they aren’t really being challenged isn’t that helpful either.

So, do both. Have them up here and play 3-4 times a week. If they perform, they take more and more time away from the vets. If not, they keep working at it up here and the vets hold onto the majority of the playing time.

 

I generally agree with this approach, and have said as much.   By the way, back in November I researched how many PA past Orioles contenders had given to rookies.   It varied a lot but there were five O’s contenders who gave rookies 1000+ PA, including last year’s team (1,073).   The 1960 Orioles gave 1,797 PA to rookies, topping the list.