Jackson Holliday 2024

[Sports Guy]

7 hours ago, SilverRocket said:

I just don't get the notion that he can't learn anything in AAA, as if he's graduated after dominating for 10 games this year (and not really more than much of the rest of the team at the time), and having a solid 18 AAA games last year. He's had barely more than a month in AAA.

I do think he would eventually right the ship here in MLB, but he can also make the needed adjustments in AAA without hurting the big league team, and get the O's that extra year of control. His odds of winning ROY have gotten a lot lower so I don't think that is much of a factor anymore either.

How does he adjust to ML pitching facing AAA pitching?

[Fiver6565]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

How does he adjust to ML pitching facing AAA pitching?

I think the argument might be that he need to do more than ‘adjust’ to ML pitching, and that should be done in AAA. 
 

I don’t think he should be sent down but any argument that he has ‘mastered’ AAA, has nothing to prove there, etc does not hold water with me. He was barely there. 

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, Fiver6565 said:

I think the argument might be that he need to do more than ‘adjust’ to ML pitching, and that should be done in AAA. 
 

I don’t think he should be sent down but any argument that he has ‘mastered’ AAA, has nothing to prove there, etc does not hold water with me. He was barely there. 

So what does he have to learn?

[Too Tall]

Everytime we clamor for a player busting up AAA, we need to remember the road from AAA to the majors is a pretty steep incline. Plus when you "arrive," staying isn't always guaranteed. There have been many that couldn't make the necessary adjustments to "stick" even after years of trying. We have a young team with more that look real good at AAA. IMO, there are few guarantees in baseball.

I try to preference everything with "I think" or "in my opinion." Because I do not know! I marvel at the posters who flat out seem to know. In Holliday's case, I think Holliday will justify what many of us think. It just may not be as quick as we like. The question for Elias and Hyde, is how much patience can you afford when you are seeking pursuit of a World Series run? The question for Holliday is can you get it together while Elias and Hyde still have patience? We shall see............. I still think the Yankee series will be the line of demarcation.

[RZNJ]

@Tony-OH  What are your thoughts on Holliday regarding:

1. How much rope should he get?

2. Are his struggles in his head now?

3. Is it a mechanical thing, a confidence thing, or both?

[RZNJ]

9 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

So what does he have to learn?

Same thing Gunnar did the winter before he took off.  How to flatten your swing on upper zone fastballs.  He’s uppercutting everything which is fine on the low and offspeed stuff but he’s consistently getting beat on high heat.  Another thing I mentioned in the off season is how he doesn’t stride towards the pitcher.  He opens up early which leaves him vulnerable to the outside corner.  I acquiesced to those who said it wasn’t a problem because he’s always gotten results.  Until now.

[Moose Milligan]

32 minutes ago, Fiver6565 said:

I think the argument might be that he need to do more than ‘adjust’ to ML pitching, and that should be done in AAA. 
 

I don’t think he should be sent down but any argument that he has ‘mastered’ AAA, has nothing to prove there, etc does not hold water with me. He was barely there. 

Well if the issue is he's having a hard time hitting ML pitching...wouldn't working on hitting ML pitching seem to be the most logical solution to the issue?

[interloper]

11 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Same thing Gunnar did the winter before he took off.  How to flatten your swing on upper zone fastballs.  He’s uppercutting everything which is fine on the low and offspeed stuff but he’s consistently getting beat on high heat.  Another thing I mentioned in the off season is how he doesn’t stride towards the pitcher.  He opens up early which leaves him vulnerable to the outside corner.  I acquiesced to those who said it wasn’t a problem because he’s always gotten results.  Until now.

What's weird is I keep thinking back to his homer against Kikuchi in that ST game. He got on top of high heat from a lefty and cranked it out to RF. 

I tend to think he's just late on everything right now. 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, interloper said:

What's weird is I keep thinking back to his homer against Kikuchi in that ST game. He got on top of high heat from a lefty and cranked it out to RF. 

I tend to think he's just late on everything right now. 

The timing is off. It happens. Probably pressing a little bit at times. 
 

I don’t think he all of a sudden can’t hit hard pitches.  Everyone is throwing 95+ nowadays, so it’s not like he’s not used to it.

[RZNJ]

Just now, interloper said:

What's weird is I keep thinking back to his homer against Kikuchi in that ST game. He got on top of high heat from a lefty and cranked it out to RF. 

I tend to think he's just late on everything right now. 

I’ve thought about that too.  It could all be a timing thing.   It seems like something more but who knows.

[RZNJ]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

The timing is off. It happens. Probably pressing a little bit at times. 
 

I don’t think he all of a sudden can’t hit hard pitches.  Everyone is throwing 95+ nowadays, so it’s not like he’s not used to it.

Some pitchers throw 95 in the minors.  The ones who throw 95 with command are in the majors.  I don’t discount that it’s all about timing but I think it might not be as simple as that.

[CallMeBrooksie]

I think the big tipping point for this whole discussion was the AB he had yesterday with the bases loaded 1 out where he watched a 94 MPH fastball middle-middle on 3-2 and didn't even think about taking the bat off his shoulder. BRUTAL

When taken in context with his overall struggles, that was an eye-opener that maybe his approach isn't good right now... that he's up there over-thinking and guessing pitches which leaves him unable to react in the moment. That was a really brutal spot to have such a poor AB, so it's got many of us thinking about his approach and whether he's just in his own head, or whether it's something he needs to work on more at a level where it won't continue to hurt the big league club.

I have no answers, and I understand the stance by some that he needs to adjust to big league pitching by facing big league pitching, but it's not an unreasonable position to believe there's an issue with his approach that might be best worked on in a lower-stakes environment now that he's got a taste of what he'll be facing on a nightly basis in the majors.

[capyy]

why is the 50 ABs in spring training where he struck out 40% of the time "small sample size", but the 100 ABs at AAA is evidence of mastery? 

[Tony-OH]

25 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

@Tony-OH  What are your thoughts on Holliday regarding:

1. How much rope should he get?

2. Are his struggles in his head now?

3. Is it a mechanical thing, a confidence thing, or both?

1. Not much more really. It's not that I don't think he's going to hit, but no matter who he is and how "cool" he seems to remain, at some point he needs to just relax and get a reset. Every statcast metric showed he was ready for the big leagues but damn, I'm not sure I've ever seen a top prospect come up and get dominated like he has. It has not been pretty in almost anyway. I don't want to see the kid set a futility record and he's got to be close in starting a big league career.

2. Could be, but man is he pulling off the ball. He's guessing now and that's never a good thing. Watching that 3-2 center-cut fastball tells me he was literally guessing slider instead of see ball, hit ball. How can this kind of whiff and futility not get into any non-robot's head?

3. I'm not a hitting mechanics guy, but I can see his front half leaking out, even on fastballs. He's pulling off everything right now instead of letting the ball travel and trying to go the other way. He leaked at times in the minors too, but he hit the ball to all fields there. Nobody expected him to look this way at the major league level.

The kid is too talented to not hit, but he may need a reset. The Orioles are doing fine with him struggling, but I'd hate to see him end up putting up historically bad numbers to start a major league career. I'd probably send him down and bring up Norby to play 2B.

But they know him better than I do so I can't get too upset over what they do or don't do. But it's hard to watch right now.

 

 

[Frobby]

6 minutes ago, CallMeBrooksie said:

I think the big tipping point for this whole discussion was the AB he had yesterday with the bases loaded 1 out where he watched a 94 MPH fastball middle-middle on 3-2 and didn't even think about taking the bat off his shoulder. BRUTAL.

It was kind of humorous because Ben McDonald had just been lauding Holliday’s advanced knowledge of the strike zone.   Oops!