Jump to content

2024 Delmarva Shorebirds


DirtyBird

Recommended Posts

Watching this team play defense is one of the worst experiences you can have as a baseball fan. They do just about everything wrong. Forget the massive amounts of errors, but it's all the double clutches, lack of handling close plays, lack of arm strength, lack of ability to turn a double play, missed cut off men, cut off men in the wrong place, guys not covering a base. U G L Y.

Oh, and remember when I once just stuck Harif Frias as the #75 prospect for his good numbers in the DSL? Yikes. Watched him tonight with Delmarva. He should never have left the FCL. No command, not a plus pitch, with a lengthy slinger delivery that does not suggest he will ever have either. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Watching this team play defense is one of the once experience you can have as a baseball fan. They do just about everything wrong. Forget the massive amounts of errors, but it's all the double clutches, lack of handling close plays, lack of arm strength, lack of ability to turn a double play, missed cut off men, cut off men in the wrong place, guys not covering a base. U G L Y.

Oh, and remember when I once just stuck Harif Frias as the #75 prospect for his good numbers in the DSL? Yikes. Watched him tonight with Delmarva. He should never have left the FCL. No command, not a plus pitch, with a lengthy slinger delivery that does not suggest he will ever have either. 

You hit the nail on the head on both counts.  Atrocious infield defense.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, RZNJ said:

You hit the nail on the head on both counts.  Atrocious infield defense.   

Sometimes I get the feeling that most baseball coaches expect other levels of baseball to teach these kids how to play defense. It's such a game about pitching and hitting. I feel like defense doesn't get the practice time, and innovation, it deserves. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, LookinUp said:

Sometimes I get the feeling that most baseball coaches expect other levels of baseball to teach these kids how to play defense. It's such a game about pitching and hitting. I feel like defense doesn't get the practice time, and innovation, it deserves. 

Maybe, but Delmarva’s defense is second worst in the Carolina League and way below league average.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

Maybe, but Delmarva’s defense is second worst in the Carolina League and way below league average.  

I follow baseball on much lower levels than we usually talk about here. That said, I see some of the best high school teams around routinely looking pretty bad in the field. I'm sure they work on it, but it really seems like the kids that rake the most get onto the field, and those kids very often didn't grow up with really good defensive fundamentals (footwork, positioning, situational stuff). 

I wouldn't be shocked if Delmarva's team isn't filled with kids like that. I'm sure player development sees it and will prioritize it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

Sometimes I get the feeling that most baseball coaches expect other levels of baseball to teach these kids how to play defense. It's such a game about pitching and hitting. I feel like defense doesn't get the practice time, and innovation, it deserves. 

There’s practice speed and game speed plus I think some of these guys are not playing the position they’re most suited to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I doubt that this organization is not prioritizing defense. It's just that these Latin American kids coming don't seem to have the skills to stick on the dirt for the most part. Now grant it, most of the kids that have made their way to Delmarva are the under $500K crowd so of course they are going to be short at something without development. 

Delmarva has an absolute defensive hole at 3B because nether Del Los Santos or Angel Tejada have played well there. They have been forced to play Aron Estrada at SS with Arias getting hurt, and Estrada barely belongs at 2B and certainly should not be manning SS. It's just been a real disappointment to see so many of these kids come up to full season ball and look so bad defensively. I mean, if you saw great tools and they were just making those young player errors, sure, but most of the errors I've seen have been on the routine play/throw errors.

The defenses are also not being helped by not having true 1Bs either. This org rarely drafts 1st Baseman's and it shows defensively for sure throughout the org. 

But man, it is brutal to watch these guys. At least in the outfield both Sosa and Tavera have looked ok for as much as I can tell (can't typically see jumps or even routes on some most broadcasts)

I'd just would really like a player to show up and flash some nice defensive tools on the dirt.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I doubt that this organization is not prioritizing defense. It's just that these Latin American kids coming don't seem to have the skills to stick on the dirt for the most part. Now grant it, most of the kids that have made their way to Delmarva are the under $500K crowd so of course they are going to be short at something without development. 

Delmarva has an absolute defensive hole at 3B because nether Del Los Santos or Angel Tejada have played well there. They have been forced to play Aron Estrada at SS with Arias getting hurt, and Estrada barely belongs at 2B and certainly should not be manning SS. It's just been a real disappointment to see so many of these kids come up to full season ball and look so bad defensively. I mean, if you saw great tools and they were just making those young player errors, sure, but most of the errors I've seen have been on the routine play/throw errors.

The defenses are also not being helped by not having true 1Bs either. This org rarely drafts 1st Baseman's and it shows defensively for sure throughout the org. 

But man, it is brutal to watch these guys. At least in the outfield both Sosa and Tavera have looked ok for as much as I can tell (can't typically see jumps or even routes on some most broadcasts)

I'd just would really like a player to show up and flash some nice defensive tools on the dirt.

 

We also have Stowers, Norby, Kjerstad and Mayo in the upper minors that have questions about their defense.

Can the O's develop guys defensively?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

We also have Stowers, Norby, Kjerstad and Mayo in the upper minors that have questions about their defense.

Can the O's develop guys defensively?

For an organization that certainly values defense at the major league level, they sure do draft/sign a lot of bat first guys and hope their defense can be developed.

One of my concerns with their defensive developmental plans is the org put such a value on being versatile, that most players never play one position all the time. Instead they are moved around a lot. I can understand that with some players who will need that versatility to have value in the majors, but guys that are going to be everyday big leagues need to play the position where they are most likely going to play with the Orioles. 

Sure, I get playing a guy in another position once in awhile, but put the best out there at their best positions and let it fly. Look at all the positions these Latin American infielders play in the DSL/FCL. They sign so many "SS's" but when you see them live, I'm like, "No way you should have been wasting SS reps on this guy." 

So yes, I do think it's ok to question the Orioles player development strategy under Blood to play guys all over versus having them focus on their most likely major league position.

It may have worked with uber athletes like Gunnar or Westburg, but it's not working with others. 

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Honestly I just don't sweat MiLB defensive reports very much.  I've seen too many inaccurate reports from all over the place, both ways.  DJ Stewart was supposed to be competent.  I saw multiple first hand accounts questioning Manny's defense and he was one of the best I've ever seen.  Wieters was supposed to be a stud, Caleb Joseph was supposedly a poor defender.  Westburg supposedly had limited range.  The list goes on and on.

Not saying I discount all of it, I think there are a lot of factors that go into MiLB defense that maybe don't apply as much at the MLB level.  Bad fields, bad lighting, and honestly just a general lack of focus.  I think it's easy to be a bit non-chalant with your defense when you're at Perdue Stadium in front of 3,000 fans, a little different when you're at OPACY.  The focus level has to ratchet up a bit.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

I doubt that this organization is not prioritizing defense.

I get the feeling that teams at all levels prioritize hitting from a player acquisition perspective.

Once they acquire the players, sure they work on defense. I think that explains what we're seeing in this org. You can teach a hitter to be a good defender easier, in theory, than you can teach a good defender to be a future major league level hitter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

For an organization that certainly values defense at the major league level, they sure do draft/sign a lot of bat first guys and hope their defense can be developed.

One of my concerns with their defensive developmental plans is the org put such a value on being versatile, that most players never play one position all the time. Instead they are moved around a lot. I can understand that with some players who will need that versatility to have value in the majors, but guys that are going to be everyday big leagues need to play the position where they are most likely going to play with the Orioles. 

Sure, I get playing a guy in another position once in awhile, but put the best out there at their best positions and let it fly. Look at all the positions these Latin American infielders play in the DSL/FCL. They sign so many "SS's" but when you see them live, I'm like, "No way you should have been wasting SS reps on this guy." 

So yes, I do think it's ok to question the Orioles player development strategy under Blood to play guys all over versus having them focus on their most likely major league position.

It may have worked with uber athletes like Gunnar or Westburg, but it's not working with others. 

 

But the guys we’re questioning defensivey, Norby, Mayo, and Kjerstad are the ones who played one position exclusively coming up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, RZNJ said:

But the guys we’re questioning defensivey, Norby, Mayo, and Kjerstad are the ones who played one position exclusively coming up.

It's more than just those players though. With Norby though, they probably should have assessed after AA that he probably needed a position change. They've finally done it, thankfully and now maybe we can have a decent 4th outfielder prospect who can play 2B in a pinch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, glenn__davis said:

Honestly I just don't sweat MiLB defensive reports very much.  I've seen too many inaccurate reports from all over the place, both ways.  DJ Stewart was supposed to be competent.  I saw multiple first hand accounts questioning Manny's defense and he was one of the best I've ever seen.  Wieters was supposed to be a stud, Caleb Joseph was supposedly a poor defender.  Westburg supposedly had limited range.  The list goes on and on.

Not saying I discount all of it, I think there are a lot of factors that go into MiLB defense that maybe don't apply as much at the MLB level.  Bad fields, bad lighting, and honestly just a general lack of focus.  I think it's easy to be a bit non-chalant with your defense when you're at Perdue Stadium in front of 3,000 fans, a little different when you're at OPACY.  The focus level has to ratchet up a bit.

DJ Stewart was supposed to be adequate defensively. He wasn't even that.

Only questions I remember about Machado's defense were his ability to stick at SS, which he couldn't. I don't think anyone thought he'd be questionable at 3B

Wieters was a defensive stud. His game calling, not so much.

Joseph was a poor defender when we first got him. We actually developed him into a great defensive catcher.

Westburg doesn't have the range you want at SS, but I don't think anyone was saying he couldn't play 2B or 3B at least decently.

Edited by ChosenOne21
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Though still very bad, the Shorebirds have been a little more competitive of late.  After starting off, 2-12, they’ve gone 7-11 since then to sit at 9-23.   

The biggest problem is the offense, last in the Carolina League at 3.09 R/G (league average is 4.54) and OPS at .578 (.654 is average).

The second biggest problem is defense, second worst in the Carolina League at 52 errors, .955 Fldg %.  A full 25% of the runs allowed by the Shorebirds have been unearned (41 of 161), also 2nd worst in the league.  

The pitching is respectable, 8th of 12 teams at 3.83 ERA (just above the 3.74 league average), but because of the defense, the team ranks 10th in runs allowed per game at 5.06 (4.55 league average).   One encouraging marker is that the staff is 2nd in K/9 at 11.1 and ranks 4th in. K/BB at 2.57.   I think it would be reasonable to infer that the staff ERA would be better if the defense were better. 

Individually, the only players who top the league average  of .654 OPS are 20-year old Angel Tejada at .676 (.266/.393/.383) and 19-year old Thomas Sosa at .656 (.220/.325/.330).   However, keep your eye on 19-year old Aron Estrada, who after an awful start, has a .944 OPS in May to reach .601 on the season.  Tejada also has been hot in May at .876.   Struggling prospect Braylin Tavera (.478) hasn’t played in the last three games; I’m not sure if he’s banged up or just getting a breather.   

Starting pitchers who are below the league average 3.74 ERA include 21-year old Luis De Leon (2.16 ERA, 0.880 WHIP), 14.0 K/9), 22-year old Nestor German (1.48 ERA, 0.986 WHIP, 10.7 K/9), and 20-year old Michael Forret (3.22 ERA, 1.030 WHIP, 12.1 K/9).  Riley Cooper (22)(2.06 ERA, 1.062 WHIP, 12.9 K/9) and Braxton Bragg (23)(2.70 ERA, 1.000 WHIP, 12.6 K/9) have spot started but pitched mostly in relief so far.   There are a few other pitchers who are interesting despite slightly higher ERAs but I’ll omit them in the interests of brevity.  

Overall, still a lot of work to do here, but at least there are signs of life.  




 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Posts

    • dWAR is just the run value for defense added with the defensive adjustment.  Corner OF spots have a -7.5 run adjustment, while CF has a +2.5 adjustment over 150 games.    Since Cowser played both CF and the corners they pro-rate his time at each to calculate his defensive adjustment. 
    • Just to be clear, though, fWAR also includes a substantial adjustment for position, including a negative one for Cowser.  For a clearer example on that front, as the chart posted higher on this page indicates, Carlos Santana had a +14 OAA — which is the source data that fWAR’s defensive component is based on. That 14 outs above average equates to 11-12 (they use different values on this for some reason) runs better than the average 1B.  So does Santana have a 12.0 defensive value, per fWAR? He does not. That’s because they adjust his defensive value downward to reflect that he’s playing a less difficult/valuable position. In this case, that adjustment comes out to -11.0 runs, as you can see here:   So despite apparently having a bona fide Gold Glove season, Santana’s Fielding Runs value (FanGraphs’ equivalent to dWAR) is barely above average, at 1.1 runs.    Any good WAR calculation is going to adjust for position. Being a good 1B just isn’t worth as much as being an average SS or catcher. Just as being a good LF isn’t worth as much as being an average CF. Every outfielder can play LF — only the best outfielders can play CF.  Where the nuance/context shows up here is with Cowser’s unique situation. Playing LF in OPACY, with all that ground to cover, is not the same as playing LF at Fenway or Yankee Stadium. Treating Cowser’s “position” as equivalent to Tyler O’Neill’s, for example, is not fair. The degree of difficulty is much, much higher at OPACY’s LF, and so the adjustment seems out of whack for him. That’s the one place where I’d say the bWAR value is “unfair” to Cowser.
    • Wait a second here, the reason he's -0.1 in bb-ref dwar is because they're using drs to track his defensive run value.  He's worth 6.6 runs in defense according to fangraphs, which includes adjustments for position, which would give him a fangraphs defensive war of +0.7.
    • A little funny to have provided descriptions of the hits (“weak” single; “500 foot” HR). FIP doesn’t care about any of that either, so it’s kind of an odd thing to add in an effort to make ERA look bad.  Come in, strike out the first hitter, then give up three 108 MPH rocket doubles off the wall. FIP thinks you were absolutely outstanding, and it’s a shame your pathetic defense and/or sheer bad luck let you down. Next time you’ll (probably) get the outcomes you deserve. They’re both flawed. So is xFIP. So is SIERA. So is RA/9. So is WPA. So is xERA. None of them are perfect measures of how a pitcher’s actual performance was, because there’s way too much context and too many variables for any one metric to really encompass.  But when I’m thinking about awards, for me at least, it ends up having to be about the actual outcomes. I don’t really care what a hitter’s xWOBA is when I’m thinking about MVP, and the same is true for pitchers. Did you get the outs? Did the runs score? That’s the “value” that translates to the scoreboard and, ultimately, to the standings. So I think the B-R side of it is more sensible for awards.  I definitely take into account the types of factors that you (and other pitching fWAR advocates) reference as flaws. So if a guy plays in front of a particular bad defense or had a particularly high percentage of inherited runners score, I’d absolutely adjust my take to incorporate that info. And I also 100% go to Fangraphs first when I’m trying to figure out which pitchers we should acquire (i.e., for forward looking purposes).  But I just can’t bring myself say that my Cy Young is just whichever guy had the best ratio of Ks to BBs to HRs over a threshold number of innings. As @Frobby said, it just distills out too much of what actually happened.
    • We were all a lot younger in 2005.  No one wanted to believe Canseco cause he’s a smarmy guy. Like I said, he was the only one telling the truth. It wasn’t a leap of faith to see McGwire up there and Sosa up there and think “yeah, those guys were juicing” but then suddenly look at Raffy and think he was completely innocent.  It’s a sad story. The guy should be in Hall of Fame yet 500 homers and 3,000 hits are gone like a fart in the wind cause his legacy is wagging his finger and thinking he couldn’t get caught.  Don’t fly too close to the sun.  
    • I think if we get the fun sprinkler loving Gunnar that was in the dugout yesterday, I don’t think we have to worry about him pressing. He seemed loose and feeling good with the other guys he was with, like Kremer.
    • I was a lot younger back then, but that betrayal hit really hard because he had been painting himself as literally holier than thou, and shook his finger to a congressional committee and then barely 2 weeks later failed the test.
  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...