2024 Delmarva Shorebirds

[Tony-OH]

Watching this team play defense is one of the worst experiences you can have as a baseball fan. They do just about everything wrong. Forget the massive amounts of errors, but it's all the double clutches, lack of handling close plays, lack of arm strength, lack of ability to turn a double play, missed cut off men, cut off men in the wrong place, guys not covering a base. U G L Y.

Oh, and remember when I once just stuck Harif Frias as the #75 prospect for his good numbers in the DSL? Yikes. Watched him tonight with Delmarva. He should never have left the FCL. No command, not a plus pitch, with a lengthy slinger delivery that does not suggest he will ever have either. 

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Watching this team play defense is one of the once experience you can have as a baseball fan. They do just about everything wrong. Forget the massive amounts of errors, but it's all the double clutches, lack of handling close plays, lack of arm strength, lack of ability to turn a double play, missed cut off men, cut off men in the wrong place, guys not covering a base. U G L Y.

Oh, and remember when I once just stuck Harif Frias as the #75 prospect for his good numbers in the DSL? Yikes. Watched him tonight with Delmarva. He should never have left the FCL. No command, not a plus pitch, with a lengthy slinger delivery that does not suggest he will ever have either. 

You hit the nail on the head on both counts.  Atrocious infield defense.   

[LookinUp]

15 hours ago, RZNJ said:

You hit the nail on the head on both counts.  Atrocious infield defense.   

Sometimes I get the feeling that most baseball coaches expect other levels of baseball to teach these kids how to play defense. It's such a game about pitching and hitting. I feel like defense doesn't get the practice time, and innovation, it deserves. 

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, LookinUp said:

Sometimes I get the feeling that most baseball coaches expect other levels of baseball to teach these kids how to play defense. It's such a game about pitching and hitting. I feel like defense doesn't get the practice time, and innovation, it deserves. 

Maybe, but Delmarva’s defense is second worst in the Carolina League and way below league average.  

[LookinUp]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

Maybe, but Delmarva’s defense is second worst in the Carolina League and way below league average.  

I follow baseball on much lower levels than we usually talk about here. That said, I see some of the best high school teams around routinely looking pretty bad in the field. I'm sure they work on it, but it really seems like the kids that rake the most get onto the field, and those kids very often didn't grow up with really good defensive fundamentals (footwork, positioning, situational stuff). 

I wouldn't be shocked if Delmarva's team isn't filled with kids like that. I'm sure player development sees it and will prioritize it.

[RZNJ]

10 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

Sometimes I get the feeling that most baseball coaches expect other levels of baseball to teach these kids how to play defense. It's such a game about pitching and hitting. I feel like defense doesn't get the practice time, and innovation, it deserves. 

There’s practice speed and game speed plus I think some of these guys are not playing the position they’re most suited to.

[Tony-OH]

I doubt that this organization is not prioritizing defense. It's just that these Latin American kids coming don't seem to have the skills to stick on the dirt for the most part. Now grant it, most of the kids that have made their way to Delmarva are the under $500K crowd so of course they are going to be short at something without development. 

Delmarva has an absolute defensive hole at 3B because nether Del Los Santos or Angel Tejada have played well there. They have been forced to play Aron Estrada at SS with Arias getting hurt, and Estrada barely belongs at 2B and certainly should not be manning SS. It's just been a real disappointment to see so many of these kids come up to full season ball and look so bad defensively. I mean, if you saw great tools and they were just making those young player errors, sure, but most of the errors I've seen have been on the routine play/throw errors.

The defenses are also not being helped by not having true 1Bs either. This org rarely drafts 1st Baseman's and it shows defensively for sure throughout the org. 

But man, it is brutal to watch these guys. At least in the outfield both Sosa and Tavera have looked ok for as much as I can tell (can't typically see jumps or even routes on some most broadcasts)

I'd just would really like a player to show up and flash some nice defensive tools on the dirt.

 

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I doubt that this organization is not prioritizing defense. It's just that these Latin American kids coming don't seem to have the skills to stick on the dirt for the most part. Now grant it, most of the kids that have made their way to Delmarva are the under $500K crowd so of course they are going to be short at something without development. 

Delmarva has an absolute defensive hole at 3B because nether Del Los Santos or Angel Tejada have played well there. They have been forced to play Aron Estrada at SS with Arias getting hurt, and Estrada barely belongs at 2B and certainly should not be manning SS. It's just been a real disappointment to see so many of these kids come up to full season ball and look so bad defensively. I mean, if you saw great tools and they were just making those young player errors, sure, but most of the errors I've seen have been on the routine play/throw errors.

The defenses are also not being helped by not having true 1Bs either. This org rarely drafts 1st Baseman's and it shows defensively for sure throughout the org. 

But man, it is brutal to watch these guys. At least in the outfield both Sosa and Tavera have looked ok for as much as I can tell (can't typically see jumps or even routes on some most broadcasts)

I'd just would really like a player to show up and flash some nice defensive tools on the dirt.

 

We also have Stowers, Norby, Kjerstad and Mayo in the upper minors that have questions about their defense.

Can the O's develop guys defensively?

[Tony-OH]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

We also have Stowers, Norby, Kjerstad and Mayo in the upper minors that have questions about their defense.

Can the O's develop guys defensively?

For an organization that certainly values defense at the major league level, they sure do draft/sign a lot of bat first guys and hope their defense can be developed.

One of my concerns with their defensive developmental plans is the org put such a value on being versatile, that most players never play one position all the time. Instead they are moved around a lot. I can understand that with some players who will need that versatility to have value in the majors, but guys that are going to be everyday big leagues need to play the position where they are most likely going to play with the Orioles. 

Sure, I get playing a guy in another position once in awhile, but put the best out there at their best positions and let it fly. Look at all the positions these Latin American infielders play in the DSL/FCL. They sign so many "SS's" but when you see them live, I'm like, "No way you should have been wasting SS reps on this guy." 

So yes, I do think it's ok to question the Orioles player development strategy under Blood to play guys all over versus having them focus on their most likely major league position.

It may have worked with uber athletes like Gunnar or Westburg, but it's not working with others. 

 

[glenn__davis]

Honestly I just don't sweat MiLB defensive reports very much.  I've seen too many inaccurate reports from all over the place, both ways.  DJ Stewart was supposed to be competent.  I saw multiple first hand accounts questioning Manny's defense and he was one of the best I've ever seen.  Wieters was supposed to be a stud, Caleb Joseph was supposedly a poor defender.  Westburg supposedly had limited range.  The list goes on and on.

Not saying I discount all of it, I think there are a lot of factors that go into MiLB defense that maybe don't apply as much at the MLB level.  Bad fields, bad lighting, and honestly just a general lack of focus.  I think it's easy to be a bit non-chalant with your defense when you're at Perdue Stadium in front of 3,000 fans, a little different when you're at OPACY.  The focus level has to ratchet up a bit.

[LookinUp]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

I doubt that this organization is not prioritizing defense.

I get the feeling that teams at all levels prioritize hitting from a player acquisition perspective.

Once they acquire the players, sure they work on defense. I think that explains what we're seeing in this org. You can teach a hitter to be a good defender easier, in theory, than you can teach a good defender to be a future major league level hitter.

[RZNJ]

4 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

For an organization that certainly values defense at the major league level, they sure do draft/sign a lot of bat first guys and hope their defense can be developed.

One of my concerns with their defensive developmental plans is the org put such a value on being versatile, that most players never play one position all the time. Instead they are moved around a lot. I can understand that with some players who will need that versatility to have value in the majors, but guys that are going to be everyday big leagues need to play the position where they are most likely going to play with the Orioles. 

Sure, I get playing a guy in another position once in awhile, but put the best out there at their best positions and let it fly. Look at all the positions these Latin American infielders play in the DSL/FCL. They sign so many "SS's" but when you see them live, I'm like, "No way you should have been wasting SS reps on this guy." 

So yes, I do think it's ok to question the Orioles player development strategy under Blood to play guys all over versus having them focus on their most likely major league position.

It may have worked with uber athletes like Gunnar or Westburg, but it's not working with others. 

 

But the guys we’re questioning defensivey, Norby, Mayo, and Kjerstad are the ones who played one position exclusively coming up.

[Tony-OH]

15 hours ago, RZNJ said:

But the guys we’re questioning defensivey, Norby, Mayo, and Kjerstad are the ones who played one position exclusively coming up.

It's more than just those players though. With Norby though, they probably should have assessed after AA that he probably needed a position change. They've finally done it, thankfully and now maybe we can have a decent 4th outfielder prospect who can play 2B in a pinch.

[ChosenOne21]

19 hours ago, glenn__davis said:

Honestly I just don't sweat MiLB defensive reports very much.  I've seen too many inaccurate reports from all over the place, both ways.  DJ Stewart was supposed to be competent.  I saw multiple first hand accounts questioning Manny's defense and he was one of the best I've ever seen.  Wieters was supposed to be a stud, Caleb Joseph was supposedly a poor defender.  Westburg supposedly had limited range.  The list goes on and on.

Not saying I discount all of it, I think there are a lot of factors that go into MiLB defense that maybe don't apply as much at the MLB level.  Bad fields, bad lighting, and honestly just a general lack of focus.  I think it's easy to be a bit non-chalant with your defense when you're at Perdue Stadium in front of 3,000 fans, a little different when you're at OPACY.  The focus level has to ratchet up a bit.

DJ Stewart was supposed to be adequate defensively. He wasn't even that.

Only questions I remember about Machado's defense were his ability to stick at SS, which he couldn't. I don't think anyone thought he'd be questionable at 3B

Wieters was a defensive stud. His game calling, not so much.

Joseph was a poor defender when we first got him. We actually developed him into a great defensive catcher.

Westburg doesn't have the range you want at SS, but I don't think anyone was saying he couldn't play 2B or 3B at least decently.

Edited May 11 by ChosenOne21

[Frobby]

Though still very bad, the Shorebirds have been a little more competitive of late.  After starting off, 2-12, they’ve gone 7-11 since then to sit at 9-23.   

The biggest problem is the offense, last in the Carolina League at 3.09 R/G (league average is 4.54) and OPS at .578 (.654 is average).

The second biggest problem is defense, second worst in the Carolina League at 52 errors, .955 Fldg %.  A full 25% of the runs allowed by the Shorebirds have been unearned (41 of 161), also 2nd worst in the league.  

The pitching is respectable, 8th of 12 teams at 3.83 ERA (just above the 3.74 league average), but because of the defense, the team ranks 10th in runs allowed per game at 5.06 (4.55 league average).   One encouraging marker is that the staff is 2nd in K/9 at 11.1 and ranks 4th in. K/BB at 2.57.   I think it would be reasonable to infer that the staff ERA would be better if the defense were better. 

Individually, the only players who top the league average  of .654 OPS are 20-year old Angel Tejada at .676 (.266/.393/.383) and 19-year old Thomas Sosa at .656 (.220/.325/.330).   However, keep your eye on 19-year old Aron Estrada, who after an awful start, has a .944 OPS in May to reach .601 on the season.  Tejada also has been hot in May at .876.   Struggling prospect Braylin Tavera (.478) hasn’t played in the last three games; I’m not sure if he’s banged up or just getting a breather.   

Starting pitchers who are below the league average 3.74 ERA include 21-year old Luis De Leon (2.16 ERA, 0.880 WHIP), 14.0 K/9), 22-year old Nestor German (1.48 ERA, 0.986 WHIP, 10.7 K/9), and 20-year old Michael Forret (3.22 ERA, 1.030 WHIP, 12.1 K/9).  Riley Cooper (22)(2.06 ERA, 1.062 WHIP, 12.9 K/9) and Braxton Bragg (23)(2.70 ERA, 1.000 WHIP, 12.6 K/9) have spot started but pitched mostly in relief so far.   There are a few other pitchers who are interesting despite slightly higher ERAs but I’ll omit them in the interests of brevity.  

Overall, still a lot of work to do here, but at least there are signs of life.