5-4 Start not horrible but should be better

[Bemorewins]

25 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

This is the exact way the Braves and Astros operate.

They have made impact trades, given serious extensions, etc in order to win in any given season.

I believe that both those teams have payrolls above 200 million. That is significantly more than what we have and certainly well above what we have been doing.

[Bemorewins]

24 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Even if those guys average 6, you can’t cover 7-9 with Coulombe, Cano, and Kimbrel each night.  It’s pretty important to have at least 6 go to guys out of the 8.  Webb and Akin have looked good so far.   Tate, hmmm.  Baumann, not so good.   If both Means and Bradish come back that sends Irvin and Wells to the pen and Heasley to the minors.   Someone else would have to go.   I still nominate Albert Suarez as a secret weapon out of the bullpen at some point.

Of course I would rather have a healthy Bautista. But for this season, I believe our bullpen is plenty good enough. At least good enough to last until the deadline.

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

They have made impact trades, given serious extensions, etc in order to win in any given season.

I believe that both those teams have payrolls above 200 million. That is significantly more than what we have and certainly well above what we have been doing.

The Orioles made an impact trade.

The extensions need to come, I agree but the Braves and Astros were further along in the process when they gave those out.

Those teams also have guys who are further along in their service time, which drives up the payroll quickly.

The Os are doing the exact same thing, they are just a few years behind on the money. Those teams didn’t have crazy payrolls when their young was making nothing either.

[Bemorewins]

14 minutes ago, Frobby said:

This is a complex issue.  Elias wants to build a team that can be sustained winner while operating within its means.  He’s not a “push all the chips to the center of the table to try to win one championship” kind of guy.   But that doesn’t mean he will continue operating exactly as he has for the first five years as GM, either.   The team is in a different competitive position now, the ownership situation is different, and so adjusting the approach is a logical thing to do.  There are moves he will be able to make that  improve the team in the short and medium term that don’t hamstring the team in the longer term, and in fact may help the team in the longer term.  But he needs to be thoughtful about how he does it.  The cold truth is we are a smaller market team, and while I expect new ownership won’t be nearly as restrictive on spending as John Angelos was, we’re also probably not going to run payrolls that compete with larger market teams on a regular basis.  So, we can sign some players to long term deals, and we can trade good prospects for more expensive veterans, but we can’t have a steady diet of those things because it’s not sustainable.  Elias needs to pick his spots, and I’m sure he’ll do so carefully.     

I am not in any way advocating for the bolded statement. With a roster this good, cheap, and young IMO it would be foolish (and nearly impossible) to operate in this manner (especially given all of the abundance of minor league talent that we have).

As far as the market thing goes, I have a different perspective. Market size is largely based upon fan engagement. STL is no bigger a market than we are but has spent MUCH more. Franchises like SD and HOU were considered "smaller markets" at one point in time.

If you look at Tampa for example, the Rays are considered a "small market". However, the Tampa Bay Lightening are not. Is hockey that much more popular than baseball in a state like Florida? Or is there a difference in the quality of ownership and the ability of the franchise to capture the hearts and minds of the people in that market?

Finally, I agree with you in that we need to have a smart, balanced approach to team building in terms of picking our spots and making the right investments. However, I am very much against the hyper frugal approach that some have fallen in love with.

I have asked over and over for anyone to name a model like that in this sport that has a bustling/engaged fanbase. I simply haven't seen it.

Yes on field results/banners are extremely important. But beyond that, the org will need to make serious investments into the on-field product and also market it's star players (who are not just here for the short term).

[Bemorewins]

6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The Orioles made an impact trade.

The extensions need to come, I agree but the Braves and Astros were further along in the process when they gave those out.

Those teams also have guys who are further along in their service time, which drives up the payroll quickly.

The Os are doing the exact same thing, they are just a few years behind on the money. Those teams didn’t have crazy payrolls when their young was making nothing either.

Yes, they did make an impact trade. And I am very glad (as well I assume you are and most Orioles' fans are) that they did!

I hope for more like it. And I also hope that we are headed in a similar direction as those two franchises.

[Frobby]

22 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I am not in any way advocating for the bolded statement. With a roster this good, cheap, and young IMO it would be foolish (and nearly impossible) to operate in this manner (especially given all of the abundance of minor league talent that we have).

As far as the market thing goes, I have a different perspective. Market size is largely based upon fan engagement. STL is no bigger a market than we are but has spent MUCH more. Franchises like SD and HOU were considered "smaller markets" at one point in time.

If you look at Tampa for example, the Rays are considered a "small market". However, the Tampa Bay Lightening are not. Is hockey that much more popular than baseball in a state like Florida? Or is there a difference in the quality of ownership and the ability of the franchise to capture the hearts and minds of the people in that market?

Finally, I agree with you in that we need to have a smart, balanced approach to team building in terms of picking our spots and making the right investments. However, I am very much against the hyper frugal approach that some have fallen in love with.

I have asked over and over for anyone to name a model like that in this sport that has a bustling/engaged fanbase. I simply haven't seen it.

Yes on field results/banners are extremely important. But beyond that, the org will need to make serious investments into the on-field product and also market it's star players (who are not just here for the short term).

I don’t think we disagree on much, maybe more a difference in what we emphasize than a major substantive difference.  I think anyone can see that the team has significant capacity to spend more without going into the red, and that markets aren’t static but can be grown if the product is good and the right things are done to build fan loyalty.   I have little doubt that Rubenstein understands these things.  And, as discussed, he doesn’t need for the Orioles to be obscenely profitable, since he makes his obscene profits elsewhere and seems more intent on using his wealth for good purposes than seeing how much money he can possibly compile before he dies.  I’m all in favor of the O’s increasing spending, tying up some players long term and doing other things to build their market.   At the same time, it’s extremely important to maintain a productive farm system, to remember that younger players are often better than older players, and not to get boxed into a place where the team has so much committed to older, declining players that it has no money to spend on younger, better players.  I have confidence in Elias’ ability to navigate this, but it’s a somewhat different road ahead than the road traveled so far, so we’ll see how that goes