David Rubenstein 2024

[LA2]

50 minutes ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

Rafael Palmeiro

Roberto Alomar Jr

BJ Surhoff

Bobby Bonilla

Harold Baines

Jamie Moyer

Scott Erickson

Fernando Valenzuela

Kevin Brown (the pitcher)

David Wells

Joe Carter

Jesse Orosco

Will Clark

Jeff Conine

Randy Myers

Javy Lopez

Nelson Cruz

Jim Thome

Mark Trumbo

Miguel Tejada

Resigned Cal Ripken Jr for life

Brought Eddie Murray back to the Orioles

 

And a caveat: No one knew who was doing steroids at the time for sure, so if we consider that Peter was simply signing a player for their production value to the team with the info he had at that present time, then it's worth listing them for his efforts.

Nice list--but another big name that should be on it is Albert Belle.

Edited May 11 by LA2

[Billy F-Face3]

47 minutes ago, LA2 said:

Nice list--but another big name that should be on it is Albert Belle.

I left him off the list because of personal bias. I always though Albert Belle was over rated, and at the point in time when Angelos signed him, I thought it was pretty clear that his career was on a downward trajectory from age.  Essentially, I thought it was a big waste of money and from that personal bias, I didn't feel it was worth listing because it has Ubaldo Jimenez and Chris Davis contract type of mistake vibes.

[LA2]

8 hours ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

I left him off the list because of personal bias. I always though Albert Belle was over rated, and at the point in time when Angelos signed him, I thought it was pretty clear that his career was on a downward trajectory from age.  Essentially, I thought it was a big waste of money and from that personal bias, I didn't feel it was worth listing because it has Ubaldo Jimenez and Chris Davis contract type of mistake vibes.

It's gracious of you to admit it's a matter of personal bias. In just his first of two seasons with the Orioles, Belle provided a lot more offense (37 homers, 117 RBIs, 143 OPS+)  than several of the players you did list combined in their entire Orioles careers, e.g. Clark + Carter + Thome--all of whom, moreover, were much further along "a downward trajectory from age." Belle's first season with the Orioles was basically equivalent to the popular and listed Nelson Cruz's single season (40 HR, 108 RBI, 137 OPS+).

I also disagree that Angelos and the Orioles' front office should have known that Belle's days as a feared slugger were over: he had played 143, 158, 161, and 163 games leading into his age-32 1999 season with the O's. The HR totals during those seasons with the Indians and White Sox were 50, 48, 30, and 49. He played in 161 and 143 games with the Orioles in 1999 and 2000.

The degenerative hip condition that ended his career was not diagnosed until the spring of 2001, a half year after his second season with the Orioles. The sight of Belle in spring training nonetheless trying his hardest to run down the first base line on essentially one leg left no doubt in my mind that, as he had expressed to the media, he was absolutely dedicated to honoring the generous contract Angelos had bestowed. He had to be ordered to give up trying to play.

 

 

Edited May 11 by LA2

[Frobby]

5 hours ago, Gurgi said:

Not if we win.  I am pretty confident he will spend at least the middle level of baseball payrolls.  And we can compete at that level if we are well run.

I think the bar is pretty low.  Don’t be as stingy as John Angelos.   Nobody’s expecting him to be Steve Cohen.  

[Too Tall]

9 hours ago, Malike said:

The honeymoon phase is in full effect, the vast majority of people here will turn on him on a dime if he doesn't spend big money.

Not sure of your definition of "big money" or "vast number" but I for one won't "turn on a dime." But I do I expect more money spent as we move forward. If he lets Elias run the ship and gives him the budgets to do it his (Elias's) way, that's my kind of owner. That's what I expect. There are too many varialbles in FA signings and extensions for me to judge using just that criteria. We have a new, fresh owner/fan and I couldn't be happier. He's having fun and so am I just watching him. He is taking what Elias & Co. have built and further connecting it to Baltimore. That's ownership!!!!!!!!!!!

[Frobby]

Per BB-ref, there are 7 teams with a lower payroll than the Orioles.  We aren’t quite the bottom feeders people think.  

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/2024-misc.shtml

[Malike]

3 hours ago, Too Tall said:

Not sure of your definition of "big money" or "vast number" but I for one won't "turn on a dime." But I do I expect more money spent as we move forward. If he lets Elias run the ship and gives him the budgets to do it his (Elias's) way, that's my kind of owner. That's what I expect. There are too many varialbles in FA signings and extensions for me to judge using just that criteria. We have a new, fresh owner/fan and I couldn't be happier. He's having fun and so am I just watching him. He is taking what Elias & Co. have built and further connecting it to Baltimore. That's ownership!!!!!!!!!!!

My definition of "big money" is the hundreds of millions of dollars it would take to retain a guy like Gunnar and by "vast majority" I mean the largest part of the board.

[LA2]

3 hours ago, Frobby said:

Per BB-ref, there are 7 teams with a lower payroll than the Orioles.  We aren’t quite the bottom feeders people think.  

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/2024-misc.shtml

But we are the lowest in our division--approximately 10 million USD less than even the Rays.

[Too Tall]

1 hour ago, Malike said:

My definition of "big money" is the hundreds of millions of dollars it would take to retain a guy like Gunnar and by "vast majority" I mean the largest part of the board.

I guess we have different criteria and the wife and I like Gunnar.

[Malike]

Just now, Too Tall said:

I guess we have different criteria and the wife and I like Gunnar.

I'm curious about your definitions of both big money and the vast majority. I don't think anything I said was nearly hyperbolic.

[wildcard]

4 hours ago, Frobby said:

Per BB-ref, there are 7 teams with a lower payroll than the Orioles.  We aren’t quite the bottom feeders people think.  

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/2024-misc.shtml

Cots Contracts only has three teams with a lower payroll than the O's.

https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/

Edited May 11 by wildcard

[Too Tall]

4 minutes ago, Malike said:

I'm curious about your definitions of both big money and the vast majority. I don't think anything I said was nearly hyperbolic.

I think DR and the Orioles can afford a payroll in the 175 mil range. They have been close to that before.  How they can fit a player like Gunnar long term into that without negatively affecting the rest I'll leave to Elias. I just personnally don't believe in throwing whatever it takes at any player when a team is composed of 26 players. That's me and I admit to being a bit old school. The vast majority of this site will probably be upset if Gunnar isn't retained. I will too, but I just am not going to think any less of DR or Elias if that occurs. Guess we shall see.

[luismatos4prez]

5 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Cots Contracts only has two teams with a lower payroll than the O's.

https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/

I've always found Spotrac to be the most accurate. It has the Os as 28th also.

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/tax/_/year/2024/sort/tax_total

[scottbbfm]

8 minutes ago, Too Tall said:

I think DR and the Orioles can afford a payroll in the 175 mil range. They have been close to that before.  How they can fit a player like Gunnar long term into that without negatively affecting the rest I'll leave to Elias. I just personnally don't believe in throwing whatever it takes at any player when a team is composed of 26 players. That's me and I admit to being a bit old school. The vast majority of this site will probably be upset if Gunnar isn't retained. I will too, but I just am not going to think any less of DR or Elias if that occurs. Guess we shall see.

If the reports are true that the Orioles profit was somewhere in the area of $100mm that’s probably a good starting point for payroll increase.  This ownership group does not need annual cash flow from the team like the Angelos’ did.  At the same time we shouldn’t expect them to take annual losses either.  I expect they are looking to breakeven and will be looking to increase revenue.   Which is fair.  

[Rbiggs2525]

I believe we added about 40 million to the payroll last offseason. I hope we can continue to make gradual 30 million dollar raises the next two years. Even with extensions you usually buy out the players arbitration years so it’s not a huge expense. I believe Rubenstein is setting up some outside revenue streams and hopefully boosts the revenue through TV streaming too. I’d rather pay the orioles 150$ per season than the MLB.