756

[orioles119]

Game of Shadows (or at least the author) says that was when Bonds told Griffey that he was going to start on PEDs because he was sick of the cheaters getting the attention.

Let me get this straight... Bonds was sick of the cheaters, so he became one himself??? Umm... okay....

[mweb]

That does not, however, absolve the individual decision of Bonds to take whatever he took. He had the choice, and made the wrong one.

One can easily make the argument that he made the right choice given the circumstances. Not morally, but as far as what was best for him and the Giants, that argument is there.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Let me get this straight... Bonds was sick of the cheaters, so he became one himself??? Umm... okay....

No, he was sick of the attention they were getting by cheating, and probably because it looked unlikely they would get caught.

One of the authors said on ESPNews that he saw them getting the attention while his 500th home run (which came in 1998) got just this side of none, and was ticked.

[BaltimoreTerp]

One can easily make the argument that he made the right choice given the circumstances. Not morally, but as far as what was best for him and the Giants, that argument is there.

He has no chance of having a real rest of his life because of that decision.

The Giants have got several years of terrible publicity, while not being able to part ways because he is all they have.

He was already the best player in baseball; he didn't have to cheat.

Pete Rose was a baseball legend with a future secure; he didn't have to gamble.

[El Gordo]

Babe Ruth hit 20 HR's the first 5 years of his career when he was primarily a pitcher. Assuming he would have averaged only 20 per year as an OF those 5 years, instead of the 46 per he actually averaged as an OF he would have hit 814 and Barry Bonds would be regarded as a silly old man who used steroids to try to catch a record well out of his reach.

[mweb]

He has no chance of having a real rest of his life because of that decision.

The Giants have got several years of terrible publicity, while not being able to part ways because he is all they have.

He was already the best player in baseball; he didn't have to cheat.

Pete Rose was a baseball legend with a future secure; he didn't have to gamble.

Why can't he have a real rest of his life?

Terrible publicity? Not really, they've sold out a ton of tickets home and away due to him, Bonds is loved in SF, and every team has had many steroid users play for them, I don't see how he has negatively affected them.

Of course he didn't have to used steroids, but that has nothing to do with this being a good or bad personal decision.

He's made millions of extra dollars, helped his team win a lot more games, is now the hr king and one of the top 3 players ever, those are all huge positives. He was already disliked, now he's disliked more. His reputation is certainly hurt. Now the major question to me is how what he's done affects his body. If it doesn't do much damage, the positives will probably outweigh the negatives, especially considering what other players were doing and how MLB treated the "problem" during this era.

[mweb]

Babe Ruth hit 20 HR's the first 5 years of his career when he was primarily a pitcher. Assuming he would have averaged only 20 per year as an OF those 5 years, instead of the 46 per he actually averaged as an OF he would have hit 814 anf Barry Bonds would be regarded as a silly old man who used steroids to try to catch a record well out of his reach.

I don't think he took steroids with the intent of becoming the hr king, but maybe it was in the back of his mind.

[Why Not?]

Are you serious about the ceremony? Those fans love Barry.

No doubt the fans were cheering. But the actual ceremony was sort of ho-hum. Stop the game, Aaron statement, a few words, then play ball. It just seemed perfunctory.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Why can't he have a real rest of his life?

Because he is now known in the public as a cheat. Worse, an unapologetic cheat with a severe attitude problem. He's likely to be indicted at some point, and all that put together gives him no chance at media work or anything that makes people want to care about him.

Just look at Pete Rose.

[Why Not?]

I don't mean to lump everyone, I just hate that Bonds is the poster boy for this when he just happens to be the best. I'm not disputing any of what you are saying, don't misunderstand.

It's hypocritical to be sure. I think most guys used steroids to get through an injury or maybe to put on some weight in an offseason or two. But Bonds just went balls out on the stuff. I mean, he totally balooned into a giant monster home run hitter.

My logic is probably wrong here, but I feel like Bonds is a serial killer in a world of shoplifters.

[mweb]

No doubt the fans were cheering. But the actual ceremony was sort of ho-hum. Stop the game, Aaron statement, a few words, then play ball. It just seemed perfunctory.

You said it seemed like they had the ceremony because they had to, I don't see any reasons to think that, nor does your post provide any.

As far as being ho-hum, eh, the Aaron statement was nice, he hugged, high fived all his teammates, his family came out on the field and embraced him, Willie Mays came out and embraced him, and then looked as though he was going to talk, not sure what happened there, then Barry gave his speech. It was a relatively short speech, but that was his choice, I'm sure he could have gone on for longer. Plus they had a ton of fireworks going, the banners by the scoreboard, and the changing of the hr leaderboard in right. What else should they have done?

[Why Not?]

You said it seemed like they had the ceremony because they had to, I don't see any reasons to think that, nor does your post provide any.

As far as being ho-hum, eh, the Aaron statement was nice, he hugged, high fived all his teammates, his family came out on the field and embraced him, Willie Mays came out and embraced him, and then looked as though he was going to talk, not sure what happened there, then Barry gave his speech. It was a relatively short speech, but that was his choice, I'm sure he could have gone on for longer. Plus they had a ton of fireworks going, the banners by the scoreboard, and the changing of the hr leaderboard in right. What else should they have done?

I don't know what else they could or should have done. It's just the impression I got watching it.

[mweb]

Because he is now known in the public as a cheat. Worse, an unapologetic cheat with a severe attitude problem. He's likely to be indicted at some point, and all that put together gives him no chance at media work or anything that makes people want to care about him.

Just look at Pete Rose.

Well if he's indicted and goes to jail, that changes my opinion.

Yeah, being known as a cheat isn't ideal, but I think he'll survive with it, he's never been liked outside of SF or Pitt when he was there, and it doesn't seem as if he cares that much about it.

What type of media work do you thing he would want to do? Or what's this anything that would make people want to care about him?

What about Pete Rose? If he was in the HOF, he'd be happy(he may be anyway), I think Bonds will be in the HOF. And the two situations aren't really comparable. BTW, how do fans treat Rose? Pretty well I'd say.

[mweb]

It's hypocritical to be sure. I think most guys used steroids to get through an injury or maybe to put on some weight in an offseason or two. But Bonds just went balls out on the stuff. I mean, he totally balooned into a giant monster home run hitter.

My logic is probably wrong here, but I feel like Bonds is a serial killer in a world of shoplifters.

I disagree with that. I think most that used steroids used them quite a bit. Maybe Bonds had better steroids than most, and he probably worked harder than most. The guy was/is obsessed with baseball and being the best he can be.

[DrungoHazewood]

Babe Ruth hit 20 HR's the first 5 years of his career when he was primarily a pitcher. Assuming he would have averaged only 20 per year as an OF those 5 years, instead of the 46 per he actually averaged as an OF he would have hit 814 and Barry Bonds would be regarded as a silly old man who used steroids to try to catch a record well out of his reach.

Ruth also played in a league that was substantially weaker than the one Bonds has played in, so you can probably discount his homers by a 10% or 15% because of that. He also played in the Polo Grounds for several years, which had a 250-ft right field line (Mel Ott, playing in the same park, hit nearly 75% of his 500+ career homers at home), then moved to Yankee Stadium with a 296-ft right field line, so you can discount some number of homers on top of that.