This series is an example of why you don’t trade any of Holliday, Basallo, or Mayo, unless is for an ACE

[DrinkinWithFermi]

2 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Yup. I said that minus the ripped off part. I said SF would rush to the commissioner’s office if we offered Basallo for Logan Webb. Then SF would just take the Logan Webb money and offer it to Cornin Burnes. 

You said:

"If we were to offer Sam Basallo for Logan Webb here’s what would happen… the bat starved Giants would hand deliver the trade paperwork to the Comissioner’s office while laughing all the way"

So yeah, you didn't explicitly say that, but one could certainly infer it from your "hand deliver the trade paperwork" and "laughing all the way" wording. 

[sportsfan8703]

23 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

You said:

"If we were to offer Sam Basallo for Logan Webb here’s what would happen… the bat starved Giants would hand deliver the trade paperwork to the Comissioner’s office while laughing all the way"

So yeah, you didn't explicitly say that, but one could certainly infer it from your "hand deliver the trade paperwork" and "laughing all the way" wording. 

I either said or I didn’t say it. That’s your interpretation not every single person’s. Do you think other people might not read into it that way.  Also, I said they would take the money saved and make a run at Burnes. 

but I’m not getting away from the point…

1. Wood

2. Holliday

3. Basallo

4. Mayo

5. Camieniero

[e16bball]

Just to provide a bit of context on Basallo, these are the sixteen 19-year-olds who have posted a wRC+ over 110 in at least 150 AA bats.

 

It’s much too soon to tell on 4 of these 16 (Holliday, Caminero, Basallo, and Chourio). 

The other 12 provided the following average rWAR at the MLB level during their 6 years of team control.

Mike Trout: 7.8 WAR/year

Jason Heyward: 5.0 WAR/year

Manny Machado: 4.9 WAR/year

Ronald Acuna: 4.7 WAR/year (5.5 seasons)

Fernando Tatis: 4.7 WAR/year (4.5 seasons)

Giancarlo Stanton: 4.0 WAR/year

Vladimir Guerrero: 3.8 WAR/year (4.5 seasons)

Isaac Paredes: 3.1 WAR/year (2.5 seasons)

Ozzie Albies: 2.9 WAR/year

Justin Upton: 2.6 WAR/year

Jurickson Profar: 0.5 WAR/year

Jesus Montero: -0.3 WAR/year

Edited June 23 by e16bball

[sportsfan8703]

12 minutes ago, e16bball said:

Just to provide a bit of context on Basallo, these are the sixteen 19-year-olds who have posted a wRC+ over 110 in at least 150 AA bats.

 

It’s much too soon to tell on 4 of these 16 (Holliday, Caminero, Basallo, and Chourio). 

The other 12 provided the following average rWAR at the MLB level during their 6 years of team control.

Mike Trout: 8.1 WAR/year

Jason Heyward: 5.0 WAR/year

Manny Machado: 4.9 WAR/year

Ronald Acuna: 4.7 WAR/year (5.5 seasons)

Fernando Tatis: 4.7 WAR/year (4.5 seasons)

Giancarlo Stanton: 4.0 WAR/year

Vladimir Guerrero: 3.8 WAR/year (4.5 seasons)

Isaac Paredes: 3.1 WAR/year (2.5 seasons)

Ozzie Albies: 2.9 WAR/year

Justin Upton: 2.6 WAR/year

Jurickson Profar: 0.5 WAR/year

Jesus Montero: -0.3 WAR/year

I will admit that I may be underrating Caminiero. I probably am. 

[DrinkinWithFermi]

3 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I either said or I didn’t say it. That’s your interpretation not every single person’s. Do you think other people might not read into it that way.  Also, I said they would take the money saved and make a run at Burnes. 

You can frame it however you like after the fact but you described the behavior of someone who believes they just pulled off an absolute HEIST, not a reasonably fair and balanced trade. 

And why would they trade a younger and much cheaper Webb to sign an older and much more expensive Burnes to a much longer, much riskier contract anyway? Even with getting a very nice prospect like Basallo back that seems like questionable GMing to me, plus there isn't even any guarantee that Burnes would choose to sign with them when like half of the league will be pounding on his door. 

 

[oriolediehard]

On 6/21/2024 at 2:13 AM, Safelykept said:

Pitchers have already become more injury prone. When the market will adjust?,who knows but it will, and part of that reason will be our Front Office. There will be upgrades at the deadline But Dont look for Mike to overpay

I keep reading and hearing that the pitch clock has caused the pitchers injuries. Why were there less injuries before the pitch clock? Pitchers have to rush that causes them to pull something.  I think instead of having pitch clocks, they should prevent batters timeouts, have 20 second mound visits. Shorter umpire arguments. Timed challenges.  These may be ridiculous to some, but it is not fair to cause pitchers injuries.

[sportsfan8703]

11 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

You can frame it however you like after the fact but you described the behavior of someone who believes they just pulled off an absolute HEIST, not a reasonably fair and balanced trade. 

And why would they trade a younger and much cheaper Webb to sign an older and much more expensive Burnes to a much longer, much riskier contract anyway? Even with getting a very nice prospect like Basallo back that seems like questionable GMing to me, plus there isn't even any guarantee that Burnes would choose to sign with them when like half of the league will be pounding on his door. 

 

Here’s my two cents on what is going on with Basallo, 

Basallo is perceived as our #3 prospect. Holliday has already been in the mlb. Mayo might be here if not for the broken rib. So therefore… Basallo is the straw man argument to criticize Elias if he doesn’t make a big enough deadline deal. 

I can understand that. I want a WS. But Basallo even as our #3 might be #5 in MLB. That’s my point.

Also, keep in mind how rainy/cold it was on the East coast in April when looking at Basallo’s .700 OPS in April. How does that .700 OPS compare to the AA Eastern League as a whole in April?  

Edited June 23 by sportsfan8703

[DrinkinWithFermi]

7 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Here’s my two cents on what is going on with Basallo, 

Basallo is perceived as our #3 prospect. Holliday has already been in the mlb. Mayo might be here if not for the broken rib. So therefore… Basallo is the straw man argument to criticize Elias if he doesn’t make a big enough deadline deal. 

I can understand that. I want a WS. But Basallo even as our #3 might be #5 in MLB. That’s my point.

Also, keep in mind how rainy/cold it was on the East coast in April when looking at Basallo’s .700 OPS in April. How does that .700 OPS compare to the AA Eastern League as a whole in April?  

Did you reply to the wrong person? Because I am not sure how any of this relates the post you replied to.

[Just Regular]

9 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I will admit that I may be underrating Caminiero. I probably am. 

Caminero 2024 is more injury than relative ineffectiveness compared to Holliday, but I think fair to say both are having disappointing seasons.

Forever to go in both cases.

Basallo's age 19 followup hasn't been as bananas as age 18 yet, when the cohort of 16 was a cohort of 2 and it was only Vlad and Tatis who had powered the creation of as many runs that young.     Granted getting to the high minors and how well your production holds up means a lot.

Certainly Basallo's done well enough it is still exciting each week to see if this is the one he hits 4 home runs.     As is he is top 10 in batting average and home runs in his AA league at age 19.

Watching the Eastern League close this year also gets it on the radar early the Red Sox in Mayer, Anthony and Teel have a nice set of guys that could position them well as some of the tougher division competition over the longer run.

[sportsfan8703]

8 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

Caminero 2024 is more injury than relative ineffectiveness compared to Holliday, but I think fair to say both are having disappointing seasons.

Forever to go in both cases.

Basallo's age 19 followup hasn't been as bananas as age 18 yet, when the cohort of 16 was a cohort of 2 and it was only Vlad and Tatis who had powered the creation of as many runs that young.     Granted getting to the high minors and how well your production holds up means a lot.

Certainly Basallo's done well enough it is still exciting each week to see if this is the one he hits 4 home runs.     As is he is top 10 in batting average and home runs in his AA league at age 19.

Watching the Eastern League close this year also gets it on the radar early the Red Sox in Mayer, Anthony and Teel have a nice set of guys that could position them well as some of the tougher division competition over the longer run.

Remember Basallo is overcoming is own injury as well. Also, keep in mind the EL and the weather on the east coast in April. That might explain his .700 OPS in April. 

[Bemorewins]

Here's the thing that seems to be missing from this discussion about Webb for Basallo IMO.

The Giants have a payroll that is $100 million more than us this year. Webb is making 8 million this year and 12 million next. He averages about 23 million per season from 26- 28.

How in the world should the Giants be able to outbid us for Burnes in the offseason? 

The Orioles (according to Forbes) had a total revenue of 328 million in 2023. And had a profit of about 100 million (99 million to be exact). Now when looking at 2024, the payroll has risen slightly about 20- 25 million. But the revenues will be higher this season with around a 25% increase in attendance.

Charles B. Johnson, owner of the Giants has a net worth of 4.8 billion and David Rubenstein has a net worth of 3.7 billion according to Forbes. And this is not to include Rubenstien's partner, Michael Arougheti who has a net worth of 1.9 billion OR whatever Bloomberg decides to invest (net worth 106 billion WAY MORE THAN ANY OTHER OWNER IN NORTH AMERICAN PRO SPORTS).

Some/many of you have bought into the narrative about "the poor old Orioles" who don't have any money and can't possibly spend at the adults table. And that we can't possibly afford any top players or have nice things as Orioles fans. Or that we have to operate like the Tampa Rays, who's owner is not even worth 1 billion dollars. But the financial facts don't support this.

[Just Regular]

Just now, sportsfan8703 said:

Remember Basallo is overcoming is own injury as well. Also, keep in mind the EL and the weather on the east coast in April. That might explain his .700 OPS in April. 

For sure.    Even after 10+ years practicing his livelihood in the USA, Anthony Santander still seems to be temperature sensitive as a performer.

I loosely have Elias' elite tiers as Adley/Gunnar, then Mayo/Holliday/Basallo, then Westburg/Kjerstad/Cowser and eventually we get a lineup with them and a CF.

Ryans looking strong as 10th/11th bats - next year conceivably that group could take about 95% of team PA.    The 2023 Braves only yielded about 300 out of 6250 to others.

[Just Regular]

I don't rule out SIGBOT regards Logan Webb as a good not great pitcher being mishandled by his club just like Sandy Alcantara and Zac Gallen.

Watching the results inch out in real time how SIGBOT is handling Grayson Rodriguez's career is one of the many quality entertainments enjoying this ballclub.

At least David Stearns had the scientific wisdom not to ruin Corbin Burnes with overwork.

[dystopia]

35 minutes ago, oriolediehard said:

I keep reading and hearing that the pitch clock has caused the pitchers injuries. Why were there less injuries before the pitch clock? Pitchers have to rush that causes them to pull something.  I think instead of having pitch clocks, they should prevent batters timeouts, have 20 second mound visits. Shorter umpire arguments. Timed challenges.  These may be ridiculous to some, but it is not fair to cause pitchers injuries.

There is zero evidence the pitch clock causes injuries. Plenty of pitchers worked quickly decades before the pitch clock and were fine.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

56 minutes ago, e16bball said:

Just to provide a bit of context on Basallo, these are the sixteen 19-year-olds who have posted a wRC+ over 110 in at least 150 AA bats.

 

It’s much too soon to tell on 4 of these 16 (Holliday, Caminero, Basallo, and Chourio). 

The other 12 provided the following average rWAR at the MLB level during their 6 years of team control.

Mike Trout: 7.8 WAR/year

Jason Heyward: 5.0 WAR/year

Manny Machado: 4.9 WAR/year

Ronald Acuna: 4.7 WAR/year (5.5 seasons)

Fernando Tatis: 4.7 WAR/year (4.5 seasons)

Giancarlo Stanton: 4.0 WAR/year

Vladimir Guerrero: 3.8 WAR/year (4.5 seasons)

Isaac Paredes: 3.1 WAR/year (2.5 seasons)

Ozzie Albies: 2.9 WAR/year

Justin Upton: 2.6 WAR/year

Jurickson Profar: 0.5 WAR/year

Jesus Montero: -0.3 WAR/year

It's kind of funny that @Can_of_corn was just discussing Jesus Montero as the potential BAD END outcome for Basallo in the other thread where the unrealistic Basallo-for-Webb trade idea is being discussed and then he shows up 6 spots higher than Basallo on this list.