This series is an example of why you don’t trade any of Holliday, Basallo, or Mayo, unless is for an ACE

[sportsfan8703]

15 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Here's the thing that seems to be missing from this discussion about Webb for Basallo IMO.

The Giants have a payroll that is $100 million more than us this year. Webb is making 8 million this year and 12 million next. He averages about 23 million per season from 26- 28.

How in the world should the Giants be able to outbid us for Burnes in the offseason? 

The Orioles (according to Forbes) had a total revenue of 328 million in 2023. And had a profit of about 100 million (99 million to be exact). Now when looking at 2024, the payroll has risen slightly about 20- 25 million. But the revenues will be higher this season with around a 25% increase in attendance.

Charles B. Johnson, owner of the Giants has a net worth of 4.8 billion and David Rubenstein has a net worth of 3.7 billion according to Forbes. And this is not to include Rubenstien's partner, Michael Arougheti who has a net worth of 1.9 billion OR whatever Bloomberg decides to invest (net worth 106 billion WAY MORE THAN ANY OTHER OWNER IN NORTH AMERICAN PRO SPORTS).

Some/many of you have bought into the narrative about "the poor old Orioles" who don't have any money and can't possibly spend at the adults table. And that we can't possibly afford any top players or have nice things as Orioles fans. Or that we have to operate like the Tampa Rays, who's owner is not even worth 1 billion dollars. But the financial facts don't support this.

Great info on Webb here. I didn’t realize he was that affordable money wise. However, I still think 4-40 we have plenty enough to get a deal done. I could edit the OP and thread title to say Don’t trade those 3 in any deal. But that’s just where I’m at. And I’ve changed my perspective. 

[Can_of_corn]

I didn't pull his name out of the Æther.

[waroriole]

41 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Here’s my two cents on what is going on with Basallo, 

Basallo is perceived as our #3 prospect. Holliday has already been in the mlb. Mayo might be here if not for the broken rib. So therefore… Basallo is the straw man argument to criticize Elias if he doesn’t make a big enough deadline deal. 

I can understand that. I want a WS. But Basallo even as our #3 might be #5 in MLB. That’s my point.

Also, keep in mind how rainy/cold it was on the East coast in April when looking at Basallo’s .700 OPS in April. How does that .700 OPS compare to the AA Eastern League as a whole in April?  

Basallo is not the 3rd best Orioles prospect. There’s a strong argument to be made that he’s the best prospect. Also, nobody who would think he’s the #3 Orioles prospect would also think he’s the #5 MLB prospect. You’re just talking yourself into weird circles instead of considering what people are saying. 
 

Anyway, Webb is an interesting target. I wouldn’t trade Basallo for him, but I’d listen on Mayo or Kjerstad. He’s signed to a team friendly 4/82 after this season. 

[sportsfan8703]

1 minute ago, waroriole said:

Basallo is not the 3rd best Orioles prospect. There’s a strong argument to be made that he’s the best prospect. Also, nobody who would think he’s the #3 Orioles prospect would also think he’s the #5 MLB prospect. You’re just talking yourself into weird circles instead of considering what people are saying. 
 

Anyway, Webb is an interesting target. I wouldn’t trade Basallo for him, but I’d listen on Mayo or Kjerstad. He’s signed to a team friendly 4/82 after this season. 

Just like I was talking myself into circles that Webb was better than Baumann this offseason. Or that Mateo and Urias were useful pieces?  Or that Santander would get a QO. 

I just don’t let group think overpower me and I’m not afraid to go against it. Believe me, I’ve hitched my wagon to worse than Sam Basallo. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, waroriole said:

Basallo is not the 3rd best Orioles prospect. There’s a strong argument to be made that he’s the best prospect. Also, nobody who would think he’s the #3 Orioles prospect would also think he’s the #5 MLB prospect. You’re just talking yourself into weird circles instead of considering what people are saying. 
 

Anyway, Webb is an interesting target. I wouldn’t trade Basallo for him, but I’d listen on Mayo or Kjerstad. He’s signed to a team friendly 4/82 after this season. 

I don't think there is a strong argument.

You would arguing against every prospect ranking out there, all the way from Baseball America to Tony.

Second, you could make a good argument, but if you think he's over Jackson you are giving too much weight to two weeks in the majors.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

4 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Great info on Webb here. I didn’t realize he was that affordable money wise. 

You were directly told that his deal was absurdly favorable for the Giants multiple times. I told you myself at least twice, maybe even thrice.

Webb is basically untradeable at this point, but in the good Ronald Acuna Jr. way rather than the bad Javier Baez way.

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I didn't pull his name out of the Æther.

I didn't think you did, just found it amusing that he immediately popped up a half dozen spots ahead of Basallo on a list like that.

Something something serendipity, something something simulation. 

[waroriole]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't think there is a strong argument.

You would arguing against every prospect ranking out there, all the way from Baseball America to Tony.

Second, you could make a good argument, but if you think he's over Jackson you are giving too much weight to two weeks in the majors.

The positional value is better for Basallo. The power potential is higher. Obviously Holliday has the better hit tool, but it’s hard to completely overlook those 2 weeks in Baltimore. He looked overmatched in a way you don’t see from even mediocre AAA players. Could just be in his head and he’ll get himself righted. 

[waroriole]

13 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Just like I was talking myself into circles that Webb was better than Baumann this offseason. Or that Mateo and Urias were useful pieces?  Or that Santander would get a QO. 

I just don’t let group think overpower me and I’m not afraid to go against it. Believe me, I’ve hitched my wagon to worse than Sam Basallo. 

I don’t really care about your 3 out of 100 predictions that came true. You’ll always be the guy who wouldn’t trade Lopez because he has a 99 mph sinker. Even after the fact when Cano was already better than Lopez. 

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, waroriole said:

The positional value is better for Basallo. The power potential is higher. Obviously Holliday has the better hit tool, but it’s hard to completely overlook those 2 weeks in Baltimore. He looked overmatched in a way you don’t see from even mediocre AAA players. Could just be in his head and he’ll get himself righted. 

I don't think you'd be able to convince many folks.

[e16bball]

30 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

It's kind of funny that @Can_of_corn was just discussing Jesus Montero as the potential BAD END outcome for Basallo in the other thread where the unrealistic Basallo-for-Webb trade idea is being discussed and then he shows up 6 spots higher than Basallo on this list.

He’s an interesting case/comp to study, for sure. Because he came up in September and absolutely destroyed the ball for the Yankees as a rookie. Terrifying production, really, with a 163 OPS+ for the month at age 21.

And then they traded him to Seattle and it was all just…gone. 

Given that he got pinched in the BioGenesis scandal in 2013, I think you kinda have to lump him in with Fernando Martinez (another name that frequently appears in these age/production queries one does to try to peg historical comps for JH and now SB) as a guy whose precocious success may well have been generated in a lab. Hopefully that isn’t an issue we’ll have to worry about with Basallo, but I guess one never knows for certain.

[interloper]

25 minutes ago, waroriole said:

The positional value is better for Basallo. The power potential is higher. Obviously Holliday has the better hit tool, but it’s hard to completely overlook those 2 weeks in Baltimore. He looked overmatched in a way you don’t see from even mediocre AAA players. Could just be in his head and he’ll get himself righted. 

This is the thing I can't stop worrying about. 

Brandon freaking Fahey had 12 hit in his first 10 games, lol. 

[RZNJ]

2 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

Here's the thing that seems to be missing from this discussion about Webb for Basallo IMO.

The Giants have a payroll that is $100 million more than us this year. Webb is making 8 million this year and 12 million next. He averages about 23 million per season from 26- 28.

How in the world should the Giants be able to outbid us for Burnes in the offseason? 

The Orioles (according to Forbes) had a total revenue of 328 million in 2023. And had a profit of about 100 million (99 million to be exact). Now when looking at 2024, the payroll has risen slightly about 20- 25 million. But the revenues will be higher this season with around a 25% increase in attendance.

Charles B. Johnson, owner of the Giants has a net worth of 4.8 billion and David Rubenstein has a net worth of 3.7 billion according to Forbes. And this is not to include Rubenstien's partner, Michael Arougheti who has a net worth of 1.9 billion OR whatever Bloomberg decides to invest (net worth 106 billion WAY MORE THAN ANY OTHER OWNER IN NORTH AMERICAN PRO SPORTS).

Some/many of you have bought into the narrative about "the poor old Orioles" who don't have any money and can't possibly spend at the adults table. And that we can't possibly afford any top players or have nice things as Orioles fans. Or that we have to operate like the Tampa Rays, whose owner is not even worth 1 billion dollars. But the financial facts don't support this.

[OnlyOneOriole]

5 hours ago, waroriole said:

The positional value is better for Basallo. The power potential is higher. Obviously Holliday has the better hit tool, but it’s hard to completely overlook those 2 weeks in Baltimore. He looked overmatched in a way you don’t see from even mediocre AAA players. Could just be in his head and he’ll get himself righted. 

I have said this many times and get laughed at. 

 

JH in no way shape or form looked like the #1 of all #1's.  He did not flash at all and  imo was the exact opposite.  Looked lost on D, had trouble throwing to first, and never came close to hitting a ball hard.  He looked like a little kid playing against High schoolers.

Trade him, get a nice haul, and never look back.    And you won't have to because imo he is never going to be anything close to an elite player. 

[waroriole]

3 hours ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

I have said this many times and get laughed at. 

 

JH in no way shape or form looked like the #1 of all #1's.  He did not flash at all and  imo was the exact opposite.  Looked lost on D, had trouble throwing to first, and never came close to hitting a ball hard.  He looked like a little kid playing against High schoolers.

Trade him, get a nice haul, and never look back.    And you won't have to because imo he is never going to be anything close to an elite player. 

You should get laughed at for what you said. To be clear, that’s not what I said at all. Just that Basallo may be the better prospect.