Penn traded to the Marlins for IF Robert Andino

[amateurfan]

I disagree that he has the ability to accomplish anything at this point. I think he may have had that ability but he blew his chance because his shtick is so poorly formed and so obviously about himself rather than the Orioles.

My opinion is that there are a finite group of people who do have this "special access" to the Orioles and public opinion so I'm not happy when someone in that finite group says "mostly irrelevant" things as you aptly put it and spends more of their time making things about themselves than about the cause / issue they're trying to cover. I agree the Orioles need informed public critique from the press. I just wish the Orioles could receive that analysis from someone like Boswell at the Wa Post or Kornheiser/Wilbon.

Tony (and others that work for OH) criticize the Orioles, but they do it much more effectively than Drew IMO.

I'm sure who you're referring to, but I think it may be me. If so, I disagree with your classification of what I've done. I didn't tell him or ask him to go away. I merely wrote that I hoped he'd go away. I don't think he adds anything to any conversation around here so I'd prefer we focus more of the issues at hand and less on him. That is my opinion. And since you're such an advocate of opinions, I'd think that wouldn't be a problem for you.

Here are my posts in this thread:

Again, I'm going to assume that you're talking about me here. I stand by my assertion that he doesn't prove his points. In order to prove a point, don't you have to either cite personal observation or statistical analysis or historical perspective or some combination of these things? Drew doesn't do that in these threads. I don't see him trying to logically convince anyone of anything. I just see him generically railing against the Orioles and trying to steer the spotlight to himself. He also consistently avoids responding to any of the points made or questions asked by anyone else who tries to debate with him. That isn't a good faith effort at all to me.

Reasonable minds can definitely disagree about what to do with Hayden Penn. It isn't an obvious situation. It is all shades of gray. I'm not sure I would have traded Penn rather than put him in the pen to see if he can recapture some of his previous effectiveness.

However, I don't think Drew has done anything in this thread to clarify this nebullious issue or to help people crystallize their thoughts on the subject. What I saw him do was wade into this issue, where he knew passions would be high, and steer the conversation back to himself in the hopes of drumming up business. That is just poor IMO and adds nothing to the board. I would be fine with him if he'd just stop making it about himself.

Wasn't talking about you. Not sure why you assumed that. If I wanted to call people out I would have. I was more concerned with the idea of people posting their ideas than with calling others out.

[amateurfan]

The post was not worth it.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Edited at amatuerfan's request...

[amateurfan]

Dude, you are calling people out here, even if not by name (I know...I use the tactic too often myself ), so don't get pissy when people you are describing get upset about it.

I edited that post to erase everything in it. If you don't mind, I'd appreciate it if you edit yours. My point, though, was not the people doing it, which is why I didn't call anyone out. My point was about the posts themselves.

[BaltimoreTerp]

I edited that post to erase everything in it. If you don't mind, I'd appreciate it if you edit yours. My point, though, was not the people doing it, which is why I didn't call anyone out. My point was about the posts themselves.

I edited it for you, but don't ignore my point, either. You have been doing it with a series of posts in this thread, so you shouldn't be surprised when people get upset.

[Lucky Jim]

Wasn't talking about you. Not sure why you assumed that. If I wanted to call people out I would have. I was more concerned with the idea of people posting their ideas than with calling others out.

The post was not worth it.

Edited at amatuerfan's request...

"close minded"

"loudest"

"most aggressive"

"lack of self-reflection"

"hypocrisy"

I'm going to take you at your word, but these are some pretty heavy characterizations to be lobbing out at one or more of the 4-5 people you could possibly be talking about here. I'm surprised that you're surprised that those of us who could be in that group might get a bit defensive about these characterizations. As for you not naming names, it appears to just be a bit of a passive-aggressive attack. Again, if you say it isn't, I'll take you at your word, but I responded because I felt my character was being attacked. My apologies if this wasn't your intent.

I edited that post to erase everything in it. If you don't mind, I'd appreciate it if you edit yours. My point, though, was not the people doing it, which is why I didn't call anyone out. My point was about the posts themselves.

I edited it for you, but don't ignore my point, either. You have been doing it with a series of posts in this thread, so you shouldn't be surprised when people get upset.

He's by far the most passive-aggressive poster I've ever stumbled across.

I think it's pretty clear that he's posting about me - he doesn't have to include my name. For all of his comments about making it "about the posts", it rarely is.

For instance, this is AmateurFan on me a couple of weeks ago:

Your posts are troublesome. [PASSIVE AGGRESSION ALERT:]I used to think that you had something interesting to say, but over the time that I've been here, I've come to realize that the purpose of your posts is to show off. You use words that are not necessary for the purpose of furthering a discussion, but do serve the purpose of displaying your vocabulary. Yay - you've read some books. That is why I dropped polemical earlier, because I was getting tired of reading you. Even after I made the post, I was tired of it.

You may think that you are expressing yourself clearly, or that your points make sense, but there is absolutely nothing behind them. Then, you attempt to discredit others by ridiculing reading abilities. I would put you on ignore, but otherwise people on here might continue to think that you're actually contributing to the discussions. Furthermore, you don't even have an adequate grasp of the words you often use.

[blah blah blah...]

You demean yourself [?] when you use words improperly. You also make yourself look juvenile when you try to lower others. You do this repeatedly.

Etcetera. So, you can see why I might have an issue with his passive aggressive shots at me. But - no - really - it's all about the "posts" with him. Indeed.

[PaulFolk]

Folks, let's steer the conversation back to baseball. Thanks.

[Mashed Potatoes]

Folks, let's steer the conversation back to baseball. Thanks.

PaulFolk is a fun hater! Rules must be bent and completely ignored for the sake of entertainment.

[Lucky Jim]

PaulFolk is a fun hater! Rules must be bent and completely ignored for the sake of entertainment.

I'm more of a "rules must be bent OR ignored for the sake of entertainment." I mean bending a rule and then ignoring it seems wasteful.

Don't worry - I feel appropriately chastised.

Wait, what were we talking about again?

[LookitsPuck]

I'd much rather have Penn at this point. I think we traded with him at an extremely low value, whereas someone like Andino isn't much to begin with. I agree with SG, Andino can only hope to be an Izturis.

I'm just hoping that the reason they traded Penn wasn't because of his performance during ST. If so, why keep Eaton? Why keep Baez?

[Mashed Potatoes]

I'm more of a "rules must be bent OR ignored for the sake of entertainment." I mean bending a rule and then ignoring it seems wasteful.

You call it wasteful, I call it strategic application depending on the circumstance.

[Lucky Jim]

You call it wasteful, I call it strategic application depending on the circumstance.

Always the pragmatist.

Puck, I don't think it was entirely based on ST performance. I think they would've liked to have Penn step up and take a spot in the rotation.

But, in the end, I think it's two unlucky, unsuccessful years, diminished stuff, and a general feeling that, out of options, some fresh air and a new venue might help him.

Hedrickson and Eaton are here to be ragged out and used as necessary. They'll take a pounding. Penn posed a different kind of dilemma.

[LookitsPuck]

I agree, Jim. Just I think I'd rather give Penn one more chance this year. Andino isn't much of anything aside from a better hitting Luis Hernandez. I guess we do get a solid utility man, though. So maybe the Orioles legitimately thought that a utility infielder with some upside is worth more than an enigmatic, young starter.

[Lucky Jim]

I agree, Jim. Just I think I'd rather give Penn one more chance this year. Andino isn't much of anything aside from a better hitting Luis Hernandez. I guess we do get a solid utility man, though. So maybe the Orioles legitimately thought that a utility infielder with some upside is worth more than an enigmatic, young starter.

That's really it, I think. Don't sell Andino short, though - there are some good words from scouting sources out there, including BP. And, though it took him three years, he IS hitting at AAA.

[RShack]

Back when I used to work in psychiatric hospitals, "sociopaths" were the guys who were not crazy, but did selfish stuff and somehow got everybody else arguing, and arguing very intensely, about whether they were selfish rats or just misunderstood. Not saying that is relevant here, just saying...

Anyway, I am still in the camp that hates to see Penn go. However, in the last 24 hours, I have become more positive about who/what we got back. It seems like good thinking to me because:

• We need a good backup SS. If you're gonna PH for CI, then it's late in a close game or you wouldn't be doing it. That's the last kind of situation in which you wanna insert some guy at SS who's no good at SS. This guy fixes that.
  
• The org as a whole is also thin at IF guys of all kinds. This guy may (or may not) prove to be better than a backup MI guy. We get to find that out while he's being a backup MI guy.

So, it's possible that AM has killed 2 birds with 1 stone, and it seems like there's no risk involved because we know he's killed 1 of them while we're finding out about the 2nd one. Too bad about Penn, but I'd much rather have Andino than the waiver fee. So, once again, it looks like AM is smarter than me (which comes as a surprise to nobody).