MacPhail cites Tex offer as proof the Orioles will spend money

[Roll Tide]

Its an offer that wasn't going to be accepted because Tex had NO intentions of coming here, period. It was not because the offer was a "token" one or because it was low.

Had Tex really wanted to come to Baltimore, and had he gone to MacPhail and said, "I really want to play in Baltimore, but the Yanks just offered me $180 million. Can you EQUAL that?" I think MacPhail and Angelos would indeed have equalled that. MacPhail has said many times that the $140-$150 offer was the FIRST offer, and that he was not going to enter a bidding war or let the agent USE the Orioles to drive up the price. He stood pat at the original offer because he KNEW Tex did not want to play in Baltimore.

WOW ...Sorry to reply to this so late. We had the lowest offer of the five teams by far. Basically saying.... We'll let you sign here to play for the contract if your willing to sign a under market deal. We never gave Tex a reason to seriously consider the Orioles ... Forget all the geographic CRAP!!!! Basically I'll put it in terms that you guys can understand.

You just graduated from high school & need to choose a new job .... You get 5 offers including 1 from McDonald's were you already work. Here are your choices.

1) Mortons Steakhouse as Assistant Manager $45,000 (Yankees)

2) McDonald's as shift Manager $31,000 (Angels your old team)

3) Olive Garden as Assistant Manager $38,000 (Red Sox)

4) Burger King as Shift Manager $29,000 (Nationals)

5) Checkers as Crew Leader $25,000 (ORIOLES)

Sit there and tell me that you'd even consider Checkers in this scenario ?????

First you could stay with your current employer & not make less money. Explain what your motivation would be to even consider it ????

[raypetty]

I may be off my rocker but I'd like to see us sign both Lackey and Wolf and be done with FA. We need starting pitching. We have the bats.

[lint06]

WOW ...Sorry to reply to this so late. We had the lowest offer of the five teams by far. Basically saying.... We'll let you sign here to play for the contract if your willing to sign a under market deal. We never gave Tex a reason to seriously consider the Orioles ... Forget all the geographic CRAP!!!! Basically I'll put it in terms that you guys can understand.

You just graduated from high school & need to choose a new job .... You get 5 offers including 1 from McDonald's were you already work. Here are your choices.

1) Mortons Steakhouse as Assistant Manager $45,000 (Yankees)

2) McDonald's as shift Manager $31,000 (Angels your old team)

3) Olive Garden as Assistant Manager $38,000 (Red Sox)

4) Burger King as Shift Manager $29,000 (Nationals)

5) Checkers as Crew Leader $25,000 (ORIOLES)

Sit there and tell me that you'd even consider Checkers in this scenario ?????

First you could stay with your current employer & not make less money. Explain what your motivation would be to even consider it ????

This is a terrible comparison. We aren't talking about some thousands of dollars in pay, we are talking about tens of millions in difference. But that is the point, Tex wanted a few tens of millions more. What the hell does one do with thirty extra million dollars? Hmm? $140 million is so much freakin' money!

Now, if the Orioles are my favorite team, you can bet your sweet ass I'm playing for the Orioles. If I've already made millions and millions of dollars in my career and the Orioles offered me far less than any other team, I'd play for the Orioles.

Call me a fool, but I am a nostalgic fool and my team is MY TEAM. If Tex was an Orioles fan and he went anywhere else for millions of dollars he'll never use, then he's a douchebag with no understanding (or at least my understanding) of how baseball SHOULD be.

[Objectivity]

This is a terrible comparison. We aren't talking about some thousands of dollars in pay, we are talking about tens of millions in difference. But that is the point, Tex wanted a few tens of millions more. What the hell does one do with thirty extra million dollars? Hmm? $140 million is so much freakin' money!

So, add a few zeros to the example. The comparison is sound. We offered less money that what he was currently making and less money than four other competing businesses.

That happened to me once, on a much smaller scale. They flew me up, they showed me the town and then they offered me less than what I was currently making. If they didn't care enough to find out what I was already making before they made the offer, then that was all I needed to know about the type of organization they were.

Now, if the Orioles are my favorite team, you can bet your sweet ass I'm playing for the Orioles. If I've already made millions and millions of dollars in my career and the Orioles offered me far less than any other team, I'd play for the Orioles.

You're looking at it as a fan. Look at it as a professional. He may have loved the Orioles growing up, but for all of his career, and before he was drafted, the Orioles were an incompetent organization. There was talk this MacPhail guy was different, but nothing solid yet. Then, the team makes an offer that shows they didn't even bother to look up what you were currently making or read the market to see you should receive at least as much if not more. A team with a history of ignorant stupidity doing something ignorantly stupid. Why sign here?

Add to that what the Orioles did with it's last big free agent signing, Miguel Tejada. Those Orioles promised they would build a team around him. Those Orioles lied and wasted the prime of his career. If you were a young superstar would you take the chance that they'd do the same thing to you?

Call me a fool, but I am a nostalgic fool and my team is MY TEAM. If Tex was an Orioles fan and he went anywhere else for millions of dollars he'll never use, then he's a douchebag with no understanding (or at least my understanding) of how baseball SHOULD be.

For us, it's a game for fans. For him, it's a business. Given the Orioles history over the past 11 years, why would he want to risk ruining his childhood memories. Everyone wants to play for a winner. With the Orioles, a betting person would say it was more likely he would play out his years on the Orioles on a sub-500 team with no outside support. The Orioles have to change that perception for good. Until then, we can keep underbidding or we can overbid, it won't matter.

[Roll Tide]

This is a terrible comparison. We aren't talking about some thousands of dollars in pay, we are talking about tens of millions in difference. But that is the point, Tex wanted a few tens of millions more. What the hell does one do with thirty extra million dollars? Hmm? $140 million is so much freakin' money!

Now, if the Orioles are my favorite team, you can bet your sweet ass I'm playing for the Orioles. If I've already made millions and millions of dollars in my career and the Orioles offered me far less than any other team, I'd play for the Orioles.

Call me a fool, but I am a nostalgic fool and my team is MY TEAM. If Tex was an Orioles fan and he went anywhere else for millions of dollars he'll never use, then he's a douchebag with no understanding (or at least my understanding) of how baseball SHOULD be.

How is a terrible comparison????? I am bringing the thing down to scale. For these professional athletes especially the ones represented by Scott "The Weasel" Boras.. The Moola is all its about! Rich people want to get richer. Baseball is not a hobby like it is you or I. Its their Business.... Just like the kids job I outlined.... Its all relative to what you make.

Texiera had 3 priorites when he signed in this order

1) Was the MONEY $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ This is explained why Boras is his agent.

2) Was the chance to win a World Series The sweet A** Orioles couldnt offer that for 3 years best case scenario.

3) Location ..... I personally believe that Tex would have said good things no matter where he signed and all of the Orioles/Nationals, Braves, & Yankess offered a attractive east coast location.... The fact that the Yankees offered the most money by a lot & he liked Mattingly as a kid were minor factors. Heck I am a Orioles fan have & always will follow the Orioles. As a teenager I like the Phillies as a second team & like Dykstra & Daulton. If I had been a baseball player and was offered more than $80 Million more by the Phillies than the Orioles...You can bet your sweet A** I would have taken the $40 Million extra and played in Phillie.

The fact is the average fan in Baltimore was spoiled by the Cal Ripken thing. Most professional athletes dont ever play for their hometown team & really doesnt seem to matter that much.

[jamesenoch]

From today's ESPN chat with Baseball America's Jim Callis :

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/29549/mlb-with-jim-callis

James (North East, MD)

Please settle an argument that some O's fans are having. There are those who believe that McPhail will never land a premium free agent because he is unwilling to spend the amount of money it will take. They cite his offer to Tex last winter for $140 million (lowest among all the offers) as an example. Do you agree or disagree?

Jim Callis (2:17 PM)

I don't think money is the big issue there. The bigger problem is that the Orioles aren't close to contending in the rugged AL East, and premium free agents are not going to go somewhere if they don't think they can win.

[SilentJames]

The fact is the average fan in Baltimore was spoiled by the Cal Ripken thing. Most professional athletes dont ever play for their hometown team & really doesnt seem to matter that much.

It is a terrible comparison because the difference between 25 and 35 thousand is a lot bigger than the difference between 25 and 35 million when you are talking about yearly incomes.

moreover, as for the "hometown" team thing considering only 19 states have MLB teams a majority of players don't even have a "hometown" team.

[lint06]

So, add a few zeros to the example. The comparison is sound. We offered less money that what he was currently making and less money than four other competing businesses.

That happened to me once, on a much smaller scale. They flew me up, they showed me the town and then they offered me less than what I was currently making. If they didn't care enough to find out what I was already making before they made the offer, then that was all I needed to know about the type of organization they were.

You're looking at it as a fan. Look at it as a professional. He may have loved the Orioles growing up, but for all of his career, and before he was drafted, the Orioles were an incompetent organization. There was talk this MacPhail guy was different, but nothing solid yet. Then, the team makes an offer that shows they didn't even bother to look up what you were currently making or read the market to see you should receive at least as much if not more. A team with a history of ignorant stupidity doing something ignorantly stupid. Why sign here?

Add to that what the Orioles did with it's last big free agent signing, Miguel Tejada. Those Orioles promised they would build a team around him. Those Orioles lied and wasted the prime of his career. If you were a young superstar would you take the chance that they'd do the same thing to you?

For us, it's a game for fans. For him, it's a business. Given the Orioles history over the past 11 years, why would he want to risk ruining his childhood memories. Everyone wants to play for a winner. With the Orioles, a betting person would say it was more likely he would play out his years on the Orioles on a sub-500 team with no outside support. The Orioles have to change that perception for good. Until then, we can keep underbidding or we can overbid, it won't matter.

Yeah, the Orioles have sucked for a long while. Yes, they had a "low" offer for the same amount of money per year. If it was 7/140 that's 20 mil a year. he makes 20 mil a year with the Yankees, right? So it is the same per year. Yep, the Yanks go an extra year, but again, when is he ever going to spend that money?

As for looking at this as a fan: I am a fan, and maybe I'm just a bigger fan than Tex is, because I'll give up that 20 mil to play for the O's. I'm pretty sure I'll manage to get by on the other 140 mil.

[El Gordo]

If any one can show through sources, when the O's made their offer to Tex, and what exactly it was, and what the other offers on the table at that time were, if any, then they might have a case. Otherwise they are just slicing baloney as usual. In the absence of any credible evidence to the contrary I'll take AM at his word. He's given me no reason not to, up to now.:rolleyestf:

[mweb]

If any one can show through sources, when the O's made their offer to Tex, and what exactly it was, and what the other offers on the table at that time were, if any, then they might have a case. Otherwise they are just slicing baloney as usual. In the absence of any credible evidence to the contrary I'll take AM at his word. He's given me no reason not to, up to now.:rolleyestf:

As I said before, this is the key, and I honestly don't remember the sequence of events. When we offered 7/140 or more, what if any other offers were on the table? If that offer was right there with others, and AM said he was willing to be flexible with it, then it was not a token offer imo.

[Roll Tide]

It is a terrible comparison because the difference between 25 and 35 thousand is a lot bigger than the difference between 25 and 35 million when you are talking about yearly incomes.

moreover, as for the "hometown" team thing considering only 19 states have MLB teams a majority of players don't even have a "hometown" team.

James.... The difference in thousand or millions is relative.

Take Ray Lewis for example. Before he signed his contract this past season he was looking to extend for the past couple of years as the word was that he had squandered most of his money. What money he had left & his $6 million dollar salary obviously wasnt enough in his opinion. Besides most people want to make more money. If money werent the most important thing Boras likely wouldnt be his agent. As he wouldnt have accepted anything less than the highest bid.

[lint06]

How is a terrible comparison????? I am bringing the thing down to scale. For these professional athletes especially the ones represented by Scott "The Weasel" Boras.. The Moola is all its about! Rich people want to get richer. Baseball is not a hobby like it is you or I. Its their Business.... Just like the kids job I outlined.... Its all relative to what you make.

Texiera had 3 priorites when he signed in this order

1) Was the MONEY $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ This is explained why Boras is his agent.

2) Was the chance to win a World Series The sweet A** Orioles couldnt offer that for 3 years best case scenario.

3) Location ..... I personally believe that Tex would have said good things no matter where he signed and all of the Orioles/Nationals, Braves, & Yankess offered a attractive east coast location.... The fact that the Yankees offered the most money by a lot & he liked Mattingly as a kid were minor factors. Heck I am a Orioles fan have & always will follow the Orioles. As a teenager I like the Phillies as a second team & like Dykstra & Daulton. If I had been a baseball player and was offered more than $80 Million more by the Phillies than the Orioles...You can bet your sweet A** I would have taken the $40 Million extra and played in Phillie.

The fact is the average fan in Baltimore was spoiled by the Cal Ripken thing. Most professional athletes dont ever play for their hometown team & really doesnt seem to matter that much.

As for the first bolded section: I explain why it is a bad comparison in the sentences directly following the statement.

As for the second bolded section: You aren't the kind of fan I am. In this case, I think we are talking about 22 million dollars of difference (not 80 million). For me, 140 million dollars and my hometown team is perfect.

You aren't a fan in the "fanatic" style. You're just more casual than I am, or perhaps, you just don't love the O's like some folks. And that's fine, I don't expect everyone to be as big a fan as I am, or to be as fanatic. You are a "lesser" (and I don't mean that in a bad way) fan who as a player would play for your "second" team for more money than your "first" team for less money. Money is more important to you than your favorite team.

For me, I go for hundreds of millions of dollars and my favorite team rather than hundreds of millions of dollars and my second favorite team.

[TonySoprano]

Do we have any tax accountants here? This is what I'm finding online from tne Maryland comptroller's office

If you are a nonresident who works in Maryland and/or derives other income from a Maryland source, you are subject to Maryland's income tax rates as well as the special nonresident tax rate of 1.25 percent. For more information about the filing requirements for nonresidents, see the instructions in the Maryland nonresident tax booklet.

For taxpayers filling joint returns with income over $1,000,000

In excess of $1 million $52,322.50 plus 6.25 percent of the excess over $1 million

What I'm trying to find out is the amount above $144 million that the Orioles would have to pay to be comparable with Texas' offer of $144 mil and no state income tax. One simplistic way would be to take ($143,000,000 * 0.075) + $52,322.50, which gives an amount over $11 million. However, I think it's much more involved than that. For the purposes of this model, let's assume that Maryland's tax rate on the rich doesn't change over the course of the contract (not realistic but I want to avoid a political discussion on that )

[Roll Tide]

Yeah, the Orioles have sucked for a long while. Yes, they had a "low" offer for the same amount of money per year. If it was 7/140 that's 20 mil a year. he makes 20 mil a year with the Yankees, right? So it is the same per year. Yep, the Yanks go an extra year, but again, when is he ever going to spend that money?

As for looking at this as a fan: I am a fan, and maybe I'm just a bigger fan than Tex is, because I'll give up that 20 mil to play for the O's. I'm pretty sure I'll manage to get by on the other 140 mil.

HERE ARE THE FACTS!!!!!

Tex signed with the Yankees for 8 years & $180 Million dollars FACT

Unless my math is bad thats $22.5 Million per season.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3790141

Orioles offered 7 Years $140 Million ($20 Million per year)

http://baltimore.orioles.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081218&content_id=3721147&vkey=news_bal&fext=.jsp&c_id=bal

So basically our offer was 1 year light & $2.5 million light per season.

To further continue my $35,000-45,000 to $20 Million- $22.5 Million.

A guy with a $35,000-$45,000 salary might own a $150,000 house. A $300 per month Ford Focus. So yes $800 per month is quite a difference.

Tex's house is probably several million dollars & he likely owns many. Not to mention the difference in the cost of Taxes. etc etc

So basically his life style is very likely substantial as few professional athletes live modest.

[lint06]

HERE ARE THE FACTS!!!!!

Tex signed with the Yankees for 8 years & $180 Million dollars FACT

Unless my math is bad thats $22.5 Million per season.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3790141

Orioles offered 7 Years $140 Million ($20 Million per year)

http://baltimore.orioles.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081218&content_id=3721147&vkey=news_bal&fext=.jsp&c_id=bal

So basically our offer was 1 year light & $2.5 million light per season.

To further continue my $35,000-45,000 to $20 Million- $22.5 Million.

A guy with a $35,000-$45,000 salary might own a $150,000 house. A $300 per month Ford Focus. So yes $800 per month is quite a difference.

Tex's house is probably several million dollars & he likely owns many. Not to mention the difference in the cost of Taxes. etc etc

So basically his life style is very likely substantial as few professional athletes live modest.

Yes, that is 22.5 million difference. If Tex needs that extra 22.5 mil, he's an idiot with his money.