MacPhail cites Tex offer as proof the Orioles will spend money

[mweb]

He didn't need to up it immediately...I do agree with that.

However, once we knew that there was concrete 8/160 deals and then we heard about the Red Sox offer of around 8/170, that was when it was time to up it.

Not if he wasn't willing to match that. He may have thought at that point that the price got too rich. Otherwise yeah, he should have offered 8/170-176 or something like that.

[Sports Guy]

Not if he wasn't willing to match that. He may have thought at that point that the price got too rich. Otherwise yeah, he should have offered 8/170-176 or something like that.

Fine..then say that...Back out of the negotiations and say it has gotten too much for us and Tex isn't willing to take less money to come here.

Don't sit there and keep giving these token quotes to the media about being willing to go higher...when all you are doing is talking and not backing it up.

Of course, you could argue that they should have never gotten involved to begin with as well.

[geschinger]

Fine..then say that...Back out of the negotiations and say it has gotten too much for us and Tex isn't willing to take less money to come here.

What would doing that have accomplished?

[mweb]

Fine..then say that...Back out of the negotiations and say it has gotten too much for us and Tex isn't willing to take less money to come here.

Don't sit there and keep giving these token quotes to the media about being willing to go higher...when all you are doing is talking and not backing it up.

Of course, you could argue that they should have never gotten involved to begin with as well.

Yeah, I agree that would have been the best way to go if he wasn't willing to up the offer to around what the Sox had offered.

I disagree with the last part though. Before the off-season, and in the early part of free agency, it was fair to think something a little better than 7/140 would have been enough. Whether that's 7/150 or 8/160.

[Sports Guy]

What would doing that have accomplished?

What does it accomplish by giving your fan base a bunch of false promises about being willing to spend more and never even offering more?

Just back out of the negotiations and move on...Its that simple.

[Roll Tide]

Not if he wasn't willing to match that. He may have thought at that point that the price got too rich. Otherwise yeah, he should have offered 8/170-176 or something like that.

Then he really wasnt serious. That make McPhail nothing more than a old tire kicker.

[El Gordo]

He didn't need to up it immediately...I do agree with that.

However, once we knew that there was concrete 8/160 deals and then we heard about the Red Sox offer of around 8/170, that was when it was time to up it.

This is a perfect example of why your impetuosness and credulity would make you a poor GM. All that BS about Boston and the Gnat's offers was just Boras game. You don't want to be playing his game. If Tex had a real interest in the O's he would have come back to them. Otherwise it's pointless to keep playng along with Boras.

[mweb]

Then he really wasnt serious. That make McPhail nothing more than a old tire kicker.

Absolutely wrong. Not being willing to offer 8/170 doesn't mean he wasn't serious. It means he didn't know how high the bidding would go and he had a limit.

[Sports Guy]

This is a perfect example of why your impetuosness and credulity would make you a poor GM. All that BS about Boston and the Gnat's offers was just Boras game. You don't want to be playing his game. If Tex had a real interest in the O's he would have come back to them. Otherwise it's pointless to keep playng along with Boras.

Are you denying that those teams made larger offers than the Orioles and had larger offers than the Orioles much later in the process?

[mweb]

This is a perfect example of why your impetuosness and credulity would make you a poor GM. All that BS about Boston and the Gnat's offers was just Boras game. You don't want to be playing his game. If Tex had a real interest in the O's he would have come back to them. Otherwise it's pointless to keep playng along with Boras.

Even though I just said he should have upped the offer, there is something to be said about how to negotiate with Boras. You don't want to get tricked into offering way more than anyone else. So making a solid offer and saying you're flexible with it isn't a poor way to deal with Boras imo.

Either way, as I've said before, I don't think AM's negotiating tactics kept us from getting Tex, AM's limit did.

[Sports Guy]

Even though I just said he should have upped the offer, there is something to be said about how to negotiate with Boras. You don't want to get tricked into offering way more than anyone else. So making a solid offer and saying you're flexible with it isn't a poor way to deal with Boras imo.

Either way, as I've said before, I don't think AM's negotiating tactics kept us from getting Tex, AM's limit was.

I do agree with this...although that doesn't mean he didn't negotiate it poorly either but yes, since it was going to come down to money, that really was the reason.

[mweb]

I do agree with this...although that doesn't mean he didn't negotiate it poorly either but yes, since it was going to come down to money, that really was the reason.

And it would have been the reason if almost any of us OHers were GM's, well that is if we could actually stick to the limit we set before free agency.

[Sports Guy]

And it would have been the reason if almost any of us OHers were GM's, well that is if we could actually stick to the limit we set before free agency.

Things can change in an offseason though..Even if you feel you have a limit going into something, if you change your mind about the direction of the team, look over team revenue, etc...You may discover that you are willing to go more than what you originally intended.

If you aren't willing to adapt, you are likely going to lose out on everyone.

[El Gordo]

Are you denying that those teams made larger offers than the Orioles and had larger offers than the Orioles much later in the process?

Boston flew to Texas and made an offer. We don't know what it was, it was rumored to be 8/170 or thereabouts. but unlike you I don't take rumor for fact. Boras said he had higher offers on the table. Again we don't know what the Gnat's offer was at that point, but it may have been higher, There were no ther offers higher I'm pretty sure. Boston got pissed and pretty much was out of it. The Angels officially withdrew a few days later as it was clear he wanted to play on the east caost. So at the time the MFY's swept in with their first and only offer, it was the O's and the Gnats. The O's saying we can be flexible if your serious about B'more and the Gnats promising the moon and the stars. He always wanted to play for the MFY's, weither you want to believe it or not, so when they made their offer he didn't bother to check with us and I believe the Gnats had made an offer that was higher than the Yankees, so why didn't he take that, if it was only about money?

[mweb]

Things can change in an offseason though..Even if you feel you have a limit going into something, if you change your mind about the direction of the team, look over team revenue, etc...You may discover that you are willing to go more than what you originally intended.

If you aren't willing to adapt, you are likely going to lose out on everyone.

I don't see what reason there would have been to change your mind about the direction of the team or what new would have been revealed by looking at team revenue.

AM and us to a lesser extent spend a lot time planning before free agency starts, the logical (at least to the person doing the reasoning) contract limits should basically be decided before the bidding does (especially for the top guys which have been analyzed more than the others).

Otherwise, you're just getting caught up in the frenzy of the bidding war while trying to rationalize why you should throw away all that previous logic.

Now if it's a matter of barely going over the limit, or multiple targets have gotten away, or you totally misevaluated the entire market yeah, re-access your thinking some. But I don't see any of that applying to Tex to where one would switch from saying 7/140 to 9/207 for example.

Concerning your last line, that's only true in this case if one constantly sets limits below what guys will get. If that's the case, then you need to re-evaluate your whole free agency system