OBP....and its importance

[Arthur_Bryant]

Walks are vastly overated. Give me hitters with higher BA's and more homers and walks aren't even much of a factor. And whatever you do, don't confuse me with facts!

Bolded part added by me, of course. But you might as well use it as your sig line.

Do you have any idea of the significance of the chart that was posted near the top of this thread? If you were trying to make yourself look ridiculous, you couldn't do a better job.

[trk001]

Actually, walks are vastly underrated. It's one more person on base and one out that they didn't make. The best hitter in the league, Albert Pujols, walks 16% of the time; walks are a product of a hitter's plate discipline - someone with more walks is also someone who is getting better pitches to hit. Hitting feeds off of walks. Of the top ten OPS leaders in MLB last year, all but one had a walk % higher than 10% and all of them had OBP's higher than .380.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=1&season=2009&month=0

Frankly, you couldn't be more wrong.

[waroriole]

Bolded part added by me, of course. But you might as well use it as your sig line.

Do you have any idea of the significance of the chart that was posted near the top of this thread? If you were trying to make yourself look ridiculous, you couldn't do a better job.

Don't feed the troll.

[Sports Guy]

Walks are vastly overated. Give me hitters with higher BA's and more homers and walks aren't even much of a factor.

Only to someone who doesn't know what he is talking about.

The Orioles were 5th in the AL in team BA last year...how did that help them score runs?

Walks are obviously a factor because getting on base is important and the way you score.

The stats I showed obviously show that getting on base and scoring runs correlate with each other.

[El Gordo]

Walks are vastly overated. Give me hitters with higher BA's and more homers and walks aren't even much of a factor.

[Ven6]

Actually, I'm a big fan of OBP, and trk's chart is pretty cool, but I found this part of the OP to be kinda of funny:

2009:

1) Yankees...1st in OBP...1st in runs scored.

2) Boston...2nd in OBP...3rd in runs scored.

3) Angels....3rd in OBP...2nd in runs scored.

4) Twins...4th in OBP...4th in runs scored.

5) Tampa...5th in OBP...5th in runs scored.

6) Baltimore...8th in OBP...11th in runs scored.

It kinda says the opposite--we're getting on base better than we are knocking in the runners. IE, we need that big bat:)

[Frobby]

Actually, walks are vastly underrated. It's one more person on base and one out that they didn't make. The best hitter in the league, Albert Pujols, walks 16% of the time; walks are a product of a hitter's plate discipline - someone with more walks is also someone who is getting better pitches to hit. Hitting feeds off of walks. Of the top ten OPS leaders in MLB last year, all but one had a walk % higher than 10% and all of them had OBP's higher than .380.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=1&season=2009&month=0

Frankly, you couldn't be more wrong.

Of course, there is a chicken and egg issue. Does Pujols walk so often because he is so disciplined, or does he walk so often because pitchers are afraid to throw to him?

In any event, a homer is better than a single, a single is better than a walk, and a walk is way better than an out. I forget the relative weight of a single vs. a walk, but it has more value because a single has greater potential to advance a runner. But, a walk still has a fair amount of value.

[El Gordo]

Actually, walks are vastly underrated. It's one more person on base and one out that they didn't make. The best hitter in the league, Albert Pujols, walks 16% of the time; walks are a product of a hitter's plate discipline - someone with more walks is also someone who is getting better pitches to hit. Hitting feeds off of walks. Of the top ten OPS leaders in MLB last year, all but one had a walk % higher than 10% and all of them had OBP's higher than .380.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=1&season=2009&month=0

Frankly, you couldn't be more wrong.

I once tried to come up with a team comprised of high OBP guys as opposed to SLG guys. I couldn't do it. Invariably the guys with the highest OBP are the guys with the most power. I don't think that's an accident. Izzi's not going to get a lot of BB's no matter how disciplined he is at the plate.

[adamwolff11]

Walks are vastly overated. Give me hitters with higher BA's and more homers and walks aren't even much of a factor.

I wonder if you thought walks were overrated while watching the majority of our pitching the last few years... (D Cab!)

[trk001]

Actually, I'm a big fan of OBP, and trk's chart is pretty cool, but I found this part of the OP to be kinda of funny:

It kinda says the opposite--we're getting on base better than we are knocking in the runners. IE, we need that big bat:)

It really doesn't because

A) We're still 8th in the American League in OBP and way behind the curve.

B) The Orioles made a LOT of outs on the basepaths last year, which removed some run potential.

Of course, there is a chicken and egg issue. Does Pujols walk so often because he is so disciplined, or does he walk so often because pitchers are afraid to throw to him?

In any event, a homer is better than a single, a single is better than a walk, and a walk is way better than an out. I forget the relative weight of a single vs. a walk, but it has more value because a single has greater potential to advance a runner. But, a walk still has a fair amount of value.

"The chicken and the egg" is too simple a dismissal. It can be both. I really should have said "Hitting feeds off walks and vice versa."

[El Gordo]

Of course, there is a chicken and egg issue. Does Pujols walk so often because he is so disciplined, or does he walk so often because pitchers are afraid to throw to him?

In any event, a homer is better than a single, a single is better than a walk, and a walk is way better than an out. I forget the relative weight of a single vs. a walk, but it has more value because a single has greater potential to advance a runner. But, a walk still has a fair amount of value.

Not always. Men on 2B and 3B one out. A GB out brings in a run. A walk sets up a GIDP situation. A bird in hand.....:scratchchinhmm:

[trk001]

Not always. Men on 2B and 3B one out. A GB out brings in a run. A walk sets up a GIDP situation. A bird in hand.....:scratchchinhmm:

... are you really trying to say that a bases loaded with one out situation is a problem?

I'll talk that every day of the week over 2nd and 3rd with two outs.

[Old#5fan]

Only to someone who doesn't know what he is talking about.

The Orioles were 5th in the AL in team BA last year...how did that help them score runs?

Walks are obviously a factor because getting on base is important and the way you score.

The stats I showed obviously show that getting on base and scoring runs correlate with each other.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have heard this all before and sorry I just don't buy it. I agree walks are great for your Mark Belanger type buck 80 hitters but I don't want my big bats walking. The best you can do is get to first base. I always thought Albert Belle had it right when he refused to take first base when he was HBP. He knew the odds were better that he could do more damage than simply making it to FB. Great hitters lilke Vlad and Tejada prove you don't need to be good at walking to be a huge offensive factor.

Sadly, I think many younger posters (no doubt the majority of this board are under 50) grew up with the Little League coached notion that "a walk is as good as a hit." While this is fine to teach a kid as you mature most folks realizse that no, a walk isn't always as good as a hit. It is only truly as good as one particular hit, and that is a single. Otherwise, it takes away the hitter's potential for a home run, triple, or double.

[Sports Guy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have heard this all before and sorry I just don't buy it. I agree walks are great for your Mark Belanger type buck 80 hitters but I don't want my big bats walking. The best you can do is get to first base. I always thought Albert Belle had it right when he refused to take first base when he was HBP. He knew the odds were better that he could do more damage than simply making it to FB. Great hitters lilke Vlad and Tejada prove you don't need to be good at walking to be a huge offensive factor.

So, I guess you have no desire to add guys like Pujols, Bonds, Morneau, Mauer, etc...to this team?

Good to know.

Bring on Tony Batista...Because obviously you feel he is better than Albert Pujols.

[trk001]

Of course it would all depend on if it was a productive out or not.

Obviously a SO or infield fly wouldn't help at all.