Roch: Hitting Coach Terry Crowley is coming back

[DrungoHazewood]

Maybe Crow reads the OH and found out he's not as good of a hitting coach as he thought he was.

Can you imagine waking up one day and finding out Sports Guy rates you an F-? Crow's new contract better involve some kind of on-call counselor.

[Hank Scorpio]

Can you imagine waking up one day and finding out Sports Guy rates you an F-? Crow's new contract better involve some kind of on-call counselor.

I think that's a burden that most of us have to live with everyday.

[Hank Scorpio]

Roch speculates about Rick Down:

http://www.masnsports.com/school_of_roch/2010/10/talking-about-bordick-down-and-allenson.html

[Mark Carver]

He started his playing pro ball in 1966 when the Orioles drafted him. He spent 17 years of playing pro ball and 19 years of coaching at the ML level. At age 63, maybe it was him not wanting the druthers of flying and spending half the summer on the road and sleeping in a hotel room.

[DuffMan]

Maybe Crow reads the OH and found out he's not as good of a hitting coach as he thought he was.

I think it's funny on facebook the news update from the Orioles says "Crowley won't return as O's hitting Coach" and there's 50+ people that "like this":laughlol:

[RevOlution]

I wouldn't count out the spin angle. Call it the Peter[Angelos?] principle in action; kick the guy upstairs to save face. It is possible that, at 63, Crow has grown tired of the traveling that is involved.

Agree!

As being very close to his age, I can certainly understand him not wanting to travel as much and tone down the intensity of his position with the O's. He's probably thinking it's time to start gearing down towards retirement.

I would imagine that the love of the job is still there but not the tenacity that it takes.

Sounds to me like this might his decision and the O's have created a position for him, out of respect, for being the good soldier.

[Moose Milligan]

How about this guy for hitting coach? http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5735166

[Dipper9]

How about this guy for hitting coach? http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5735166

Hmmm....

Pros: The absolute BEST pure hitter I have ever seen.

Cons: Do I really need to go here?

I'll pass.

[Bradysburns]

this is great news. Crow is a terrific swing mechanics guy. He will be an asset to the players in the minors.

This sounds good on first blush, but I hope it doesn't mean that TC's preference for aggressive at-bats becomes the O's organizational hitting philosophy. I would prefer a more Moneyball-ish approach emphasizing working pitchers, getting good looks, and getting on base... with some power.

Regardless, I think his influence will be greatly diminished, which is welcome, IMO. The new hitting coach can/must set the organizational hitting approach with Buck - and hopefully they will get it to ripple through the minors, too.

[Frobby]

This sounds good on first blush, but I hope it doesn't mean that TC's preference for aggressive at-bats becomes the O's organizational hitting philosophy. I would prefer a more Moneyball-ish approach emphasizing working pitchers, getting good looks, and getting on base... with some power.

Regardless, I think his influence will be greatly diminished, which is welcome, IMO. The new hitting coach can/must set the organizational hitting approach with Buck - and hopefully they will get it to ripple through the minors, too.

I think this is so overblown. It was already shown that, of the players who played both in Baltimore and elsewhere, they hit better under Crowley, and even their walk rates were slightly better. Crowley himself walked once every 8 times he went to the plate as a major leaguer. The idea that he's teaching guys to swing at bad pitches is just malarkey in my view.

The three guys on the team with a P/PA of 4.00 or better were Nick Markakis, Brian Roberts and Matt Wieters. All three came up in the Orioles' system. Markakis' P/PA has increased every year. Roberts has been over 4.00 four years in a row after being a bit lower earlier in his career. Wieters has been over 4.00 both seasons. Shouldn't they be the guys who are most susceptible to having Terry Crowley teach them an impatient approach?

I swear, some people just won't be happy unless Crowley is tarred and feathered. He's stepping down even though Showalter invited him back, and yet still there are people worried that he will be a negative influence. Absurd.

[TiredofLosing20]

I think this is so overblown. It was already shown that, of the players who played both in Baltimore and elsewhere, they hit better under Crowley, and even their walk rates were slightly better. Crowley himself walked once every 8 times he went to the plate as a major leaguer.

Well, at least players between 2006-2009 and the small sample of players Hoosiers used. I don't think anything comprehensive has been done on the subject. I probably am not willing to make this statement based on the samples that have been provided thus far. Doesn't mean its not true just means I would need something a littl more comprehensive.

The idea that he's teaching guys to swing at bad pitches is just malarkey in my view.

I don't think I ever said that, I don't know anyone who has said that. What we have said is that we believe he teaches an aggressive approach and that it doesn't necessarily value working the count or getting on base via walk. The results of the teams he has coached over two organizations has clearly shown his hitters are agressive and don't take walks. We all agree the players involved play an overwhelming role in this. Some think Crowley should be held blameless others believe he should have some blame.

The three guys on the team with a P/PA of 4.00 or better were Nick Markakis, Brian Roberts and Matt Wieters. All three came up in the Orioles' system. Markakis' P/PA has increased every year. Roberts has been over 4.00 four years in a row after being a bit lower earlier in his career. Wieters has been over 4.00 both seasons. Shouldn't they be the guys who are most susceptible to having Terry Crowley teach them an impatient approach?

Agreed but its not like these guys were hackers in the minors and now suddently have a better approach.

I swear, some people just won't be happy unless Crowley is tarred and feathered. He's stepping down even though Showalter invited him back, and yet still there are people worried that he will be a negative influence. Absurd.

I am fine with Crowley as a swing guru but I have to admit I will have the same concerns I do now about him being the hitting coach. In some regards the new position may afford him even greater influence if he is going to have input on FAs and minor leaguers.

I don't want to tar and feather the guy. I actually would be happy with him in a position similar to what it appears Brady was doing. Sort of an onstaff swing coach. I think he may have significant value in that role.

To your point, I guess you have to give Showalter the benefit of the doubt. If he truly wants him back then you have to put stock in that.

[Going Underground]

Predictions:

Again, these are more educated guesses than anything definitive, but I could see a staff that included Connor as pitching coach, Don Wakamatsu as bench coach, Mike Barnett at hitting coach and a former pitching coach in the bullpen, perhaps a Nardi Contreras or Rick Adair. Since Wakamatsu could handle catching instruction, that would leave an infield instructor and an outfield instructor in the first and third base coaches’ boxes. I think we’ll see one young guy getting a break and one old Oriole in those roles.

Predictions from the Sun.

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/blog/2010/10/some_orioles_coaching_staff_th.html

[Bradysburns]

I think this is so overblown. It was already shown that, of the players who played both in Baltimore and elsewhere, they hit better under Crowley, and even their walk rates were slightly better. Crowley himself walked once every 8 times he went to the plate as a major leaguer. The idea that he's teaching guys to swing at bad pitches is just malarkey in my view.

The three guys on the team with a P/PA of 4.00 or better were Nick Markakis, Brian Roberts and Matt Wieters. All three came up in the Orioles' system. Markakis' P/PA has increased every year. Roberts has been over 4.00 four years in a row after being a bit lower earlier in his career. Wieters has been over 4.00 both seasons. Shouldn't they be the guys who are most susceptible to having Terry Crowley teach them an impatient approach?

I swear, some people just won't be happy unless Crowley is tarred and feathered. He's stepping down even though Showalter invited him back, and yet still there are people worried that he will be a negative influence. Absurd.

No, I am not trying to "tar and feather" TC. I'm really not. But the data you cite about Crowley somehow instilling better walk rates are inconclusive, IMO. I am not convinced. I say that for three reasons.

One, it has been my unscientific observation that other teams have more patient at-bats than we do. That this trend has seemed especially apparent versus the Yankees really galls me. So I admit to some irritation/emotion on this topic.

Secondly, TC has stated a preference for aggressive at-bats. For example, in reference to Josh Bell he said: "He's very aggressive, he's a big presence in the batter's box. He's a big guy, and these are all things that I like."

Thirdly, after TC takes over as hitting coach, teams always trend downward in terms of walks, relative to their competition. The stats showing this trend can be found here.

You can single out players, you can isolate stats all you want. But at the end of the day, our RANK versus other teams is what matters, because we play against them, not against past seasons' of individual players.

So I am looking at larger, team trends, and macro effects over years... and I am seeing the "Terry Crowley effect" in action. And I think it's time to go in another direction. If you like his effect on the team, fine. Agree to disagree.

[DrungoHazewood]

Thirdly, after TC takes over as hitting coach, teams always trend downward in terms of walks, relative to their competition. The stats showing this trend can be found here.

I don't want to belabor the point, but Crowley has been hired by three old, declining, past-peak teams that chose to plug holes with 2nd- and 3rd-rate talent.

You and the hardballtimes article are faulting Crowley because he took over a team that saw patient guys like Singleton, Lowenstein, Wayne Gross and others leave, and the team chose to replace them with the free-swinging likes of Lee Lacy, Larry Sheets, Jim Traber, and Juan Bonilla.

[Bradysburns]

I don't want to belabor the point, but Crowley has been hired by three old, declining, past-peak teams that chose to plug holes with 2nd- and 3rd-rate talent.

You and the hardballtimes article are faulting Crowley because he took over a team that saw patient guys like Singleton, Lowenstein, Wayne Gross and others leave, and the team chose to replace them with the free-swinging likes of Lee Lacy, Larry Sheets, Jim Traber, and Juan Bonilla.

Yes, this is a fair point - and great historical perspective. But it's conceivable that the new hitting coach came in and helped to identify players to be acquired, and influenced the process toward free swingers (tinfoil alert).

But even if that's not the case. Even if they just happened to suddenly prefer acquiring free swingers upon the arrival of TC... the man himself stated a preference for aggressive hitters in the above article! And I haven't seen anyone question the accuracy of that quote, or the article itself.

So on the main, considering everything, I would prefer a different hitting coach.