MFY readying Lee offer; Red Sox contact Werth

[MrOrange82]

In three years when Lee is pitching in a back-brace in Scranton and Werth is putting up a .750 OPS, you'll be happy he slept in

And in 1-2 years when one or both of them have won championships with their new teams...?

[Crazysilver03]

I'm definitely from the show me state, but I also remember a post from a month or two ago about Crowley being retained.

Despite all evidence that we needed to move on, it appeared as if the O's were going to keep him...until we didn't.

I'm not saying we're going to spend $400 million, but I also flat out don't believe we'll re-sign Izturis unless we really do spend a bunch at other positions. It just doesn't make sense, and I trust that AM/Buck know that.

I have to believe that, with Buck in house, the O's have a plan that's better than Adam Eaton, Cesar Izturis and Garrett Atkins. If they don't this offseason, there will be a mutiny.

The Orioles offered Crowley the HC position and he had already accepted before he was later offered an organizational position.

[Stotle]

The Orioles appear to be using the Field of Dreams philosophy -- "build it and they will come." They believe they can grow/build their own championship caliber team from within. The biggest problem with that so far has been selecting the right building blocks. Until recently, they haven't done enough of that. And I think they finally have a GM, and a manager, who realize that structures made to last need a solid cornerstone. Finding one and buying it is the problem.

Generally agree with this. I think it is underappreciated around these parts that even with great leadership up top, you need to have dependable and talented management/help at all levels. In other words, hypothetically, it doesn't matter that MacPhail wants to grow the arms if:

1. Jordan's area guys aren't adept at spotting the right arms to target,

2. Jordan's approach to landing arms doesn't result in enough usable ML arms to make FA acquisitions in the dept. unnecessary,

3. the development staff is inconsistent across levels and doesn't facilitate a consistent production of usable arms, or

4. the organizational plan with regards to pitching misunderstands the best way to develop those arms, resulting in fewer "hits" than BAL needs.

Again, that was a hypothetical and NOT my opinion of Jordan/scouting/development/etc. Just an example. My point is more that, while it is great for an organization to have good leadership up top, an organization needs to be successful at each of its levels in order for it to be successful as a whole.

[Crazysilver03]

Sorry if either of these specific articles have been posted already--didn't see anything. These are two guys guys some of us have dreamed about...time to wake up to the obvious MLB realities. Cross 'em off.

Lee

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/news/story?id=5778335

Werth

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/mlb/news/story?id=5780299

Nothing even close to groundbreaking, but I find myself depressed by it nonetheless. The Werth article also says that it is a no-brainer that the Sux will likely pursue Carl Crawford. I spend all of the season getting more and more excited about baseball, only to have the offseason remind me of the uneven playing field.

None of this is surprising.

At the same time, I thoroughly enjoy people getting up in arms because there aren't articles out there talking about how the Orioles have contacted the agents for Werth and Lee. These are fluff pieces yet some posters are getting their feathers ruffled over it.

[Dipper9]

And THIS thread illustrates why I keep ZERO expectations for the Orioles improving in the offseason. We do not do what is needed to win. I forget which manager said it, Davey Johnson perhaps, but he said Pennants are won in the offseason. Since Gillick left, you now understand why we have not had a winning season in 13 years...we DO NOT do what is neccessary to put together a winning team. We just sit back and hope that ground beef will somehow turn into filet mignon. We stink!

[LookinUp]

The Orioles offered Crowley the HC position and he had already accepted before he was later offered an organizational position.

That story wasn't exactly convincing to me.

[Crazysilver03]

And THIS thread illustrates why I keep ZERO expectations for the Orioles improving in the offseason. We do not do what is needed to win. I forget which manager said it, Davey Johnson perhaps, but he said Pennants are won in the offseason. Since Gillick left, you now understand why we have not had a winning season in 13 years...we DO NOT do what is neccessary to put together a winning team. We just sit back and hope that ground beef will somehow turn into filet mignon. We stink!

And this post illustrates people putting too much into fluff pieces. It is the second day of free agency. Neither Lee nor Werth are signing anytime soon.

[TiredofLosing20]

We just sit back and hope that ground beef will somehow turn into filet mignon. We stink!

For the most part I disagree with your point of view in the post but kudos for working this in!! I got a chuckle!

[BaltimoreTerp]

And THIS thread illustrates why I keep ZERO expectations for the Orioles improving in the offseason. We do not do what is needed to win. I forget which manager said it, Davey Johnson perhaps, but he said Pennants are won in the offseason. Since Gillick left, you now understand why we have not had a winning season in 13 years...we DO NOT do what is neccessary to put together a winning team. We just sit back and hope that ground beef will somehow turn into filet mignon. We stink!

Do you eat filet mignon every night?

And do you really have that low an opinion of the players on this team?

[Crazysilver03]

That story wasn't exactly convincing to me.

Ah, the JTrea-logic. Deny things that are shown as evidence because they run counter to what you want to believe.

[Tony-OH]

The Orioles have no reason at all not to be aggressive this winter.

1.) They've had their organizational meeting

2) They have their manager of the future

3) They've determined which young players are ready to come up and help in the few years and which ones are not

4) The Calvary has arrived

5) They know they need a 3B, 1B, SS, and power hitting LF.

6) They've tasted winning late in the year and should be ready to build off that

7) They have money to spend after being under budget for 3-4 years now (Remember, they never did spend that $20 million a year they were willing to give Teixeira)

8) They should know their strengths and should know their trading chips

Whether it's through trades or free agency (trades look to be a better avenue), MacPhail has to be aggressive this off season. If he waits to see how the market shakes out or waits for New York and Boston to take all the top tier guys, he's going to be left wanting.

This is the most important offseason he's had as the Orioles GM and either he needs to step up the plate or step off and let someone else try.

So I agree with Roch, the Orioles need to show everyone in baseball that they are serious about competing in the AL East. Lee would be a huge step in that direction but that's not MacPhail's style. He has to know the SF way is not going to work in the AL East. I agree that you have to grow the arms, but at some point you need some aces and Lee would provide that ace at the top of the rotation while taking some pressure off Matusz and gang.

If the top guys start getting scooped up and trades start going down without the Orioles involved, we'll know where this offseason is heading.

[JDubs]

Call me crazy, but I can't get fired up about competitive disadvantage when:

1. BAL hasn't shown any real ability to operate on the level of the best organizations in baseball;

2. TAM has won the division twice in the last three years;

3. TOR has a harder sell than BAL with regards to free agents, given their tax situation; and

4. ownership doesn't complain.

Once BAL is putting together a good team and operating at a high level and NOT getting a chance to make the playoffs, I'll start worrying about complaining. Getting upset because BAL does not have the ability to half-ass their way into the playoffs like a number of other organizations just isn't something I can do.

This is also very true. My feelings come from two places. As a fan of baseball, it makes me sad that most of the general populace does not respect the MLB because the competitive disadvantages (read: $$) have rendered it a laughing stock.

As an Orioles fan, I'll be more angry at the O's than the league if the FO does not competently execute the types initiatives you have listed above.

[LookinUp]

Ah, the JTrea-logic. Deny things that are shown as evidence because they run counter to what you want to believe.

Maybe so, but it's very odd for someone to take one position and then take a downgrade to another position. I don't think any of us know the back story there. It sure seems like Buck wanted his own guy in the job. We don't know, but we do know that the change in stories is abnormal.

[Can_of_corn]

And THIS thread illustrates why I keep ZERO expectations for the Orioles improving in the offseason. We do not do what is needed to win. I forget which manager said it, Davey Johnson perhaps, but he said Pennants are won in the offseason. Since Gillick left, you now understand why we have not had a winning season in 13 years...we DO NOT do what is neccessary to put together a winning team. We just sit back and hope that ground beef will somehow turn into filet mignon. We stink!

"You win pennants in the off season when you build your teams with trades and free agents."

Earl Weaver

[TonySoprano]

True...but then again, the Yanks will throw money at whatever problems they're having at the time.

...which makes me laugh at those counting down to the collapse of the Yankees. They reload year after year after year.