On the usage of statistics on the OH

[Tony-OH]

Without getting into the discussion on name-calling I have a few things I'd like to add (which may or may not have been added already as I haven't read the whole thread).

I love wOBA (I'm pretty sure I was the first person on here to use the stat), but would never downgrade someone who prefers to use OPS instead. I'm not sure if this is pointed out in the Fangraphs primer, but if you have a player's wOBA and his OBP both readily available you can then determine if the player hit with power that season (yes, I realize that if you have those then you also likely have his SLG available). If wOBA is less than OBP, then the player didn't hit with much power. If wOBA is higher than OBP, then the player hit with a good bit of power. If they are roughly the same then the player hit for average power. SJ mentioned Ramirez and Ludwick (circa 2008). That season Ramirez had a wOBA/OBP split of 405/400 versus 406/375 for Ludwick. The fact that Ludwick's wOBA was 031 points higher than his OBP compared to a 005 point delta for Ramirez tells us that Ludwick hit with a lot more power that season than did Ramirez. Izturis, on the other hand, has a career wOBA/OBP split of 274/296, which tells us that he hits with little or no power (I know that surprises all of you). Just the fact that his career wOBA is 274 tells you all you need to know about his ability get on base (as if we need a stat to tell us that one).

In regards to the BA/OBP/SLG thing, I still think BA has some usefulness. I've actually used BA along with BABIP to predict a batter's slash line with some success in the past. While BA tends to be extremely inconsistent, patience and power in the forms of ISO-D and ISO-P are typically more consistent (and much more consistent in many cases). ISO-D is Isolated Discipline (or the delta betwen BA and OBP). League average is typically somewhere around .065 (give or take .005). ISO-P is the delta between BA and SLG. If a player has a .275 BA along with a ISOs of .075 and .150, then his OPS will be .275 + .275 + .075 + .150 = .775. Say that same player had what for him was a much lower than normal BABIP. For the following season we might predict that his BABIP will increase closer to his career BABIP. Then using that new predicted BABIP and plugging it into a formula maybe we'd come up with a predicted BA of .295 for the next season. For that season maybe we'd project him to have an OPS of .815. (The obvious danger here is that even with regression to the mean a stat like BABIP is still darn hard to project.)

And this is why you are the man Ted. Great post.

[RVAbird]

Without getting into the discussion on name-calling I have a few things I'd like to add (which may or may not have been added already as I haven't read the whole thread).

I love wOBA (I'm pretty sure I was the first person on here to use the stat), but would never downgrade someone who prefers to use OPS instead. I'm not sure if this is pointed out in the Fangraphs primer, but if you have a player's wOBA and his OBP both readily available you can then determine if the player hit with power that season (yes, I realize that if you have those then you also likely have his SLG available). If wOBA is less than OBP, then the player didn't hit with much power. If wOBA is higher than OBP, then the player hit with a good bit of power. If they are roughly the same then the player hit for average power. SJ mentioned Ramirez and Ludwick (circa 2008). That season Ramirez had a wOBA/OBP split of 405/400 versus 406/375 for Ludwick. The fact that Ludwick's wOBA was 031 points higher than his OBP compared to a 005 point delta for Ramirez tells us that Ludwick hit with a lot more power that season than did Ramirez. Izturis, on the other hand, has a career wOBA/OBP split of 274/296, which tells us that he hits with little or no power (I know that surprises all of you). Just the fact that his career wOBA is 274 tells you all you need to know about his ability get on base (as if we need a stat to tell us that one).

In regards to the BA/OBP/SLG thing, I still think BA has some usefulness. I've actually used BA along with BABIP to predict a batter's slash line with some success in the past. While BA tends to be extremely inconsistent, patience and power in the forms of ISO-D and ISO-P are typically more consistent (and much more consistent in many cases). ISO-D is Isolated Discipline (or the delta betwen BA and OBP). League average is typically somewhere around .065 (give or take .005). ISO-P is the delta between BA and SLG. If a player has a .275 BA along with a ISOs of .075 and .150, then his OPS will be .275 + .275 + .075 + .150 = .775. Say that same player had what for him was a much lower than normal BABIP. For the following season we might predict that his BABIP will increase closer to his career BABIP. Then using that new predicted BABIP and plugging it into a formula maybe we'd come up with a predicted BA of .295 for the next season. For that season maybe we'd project him to have an OPS of .815. (The obvious danger here is that even with regression to the mean a stat like BABIP is still darn hard to project.)

Phenomenal post.

[SrMeowMeow]

See Sports Guy and BTerp, they can help you with the support group. Get a grip man.

I'm not overly surprised that a guy who choose the handle "SrMeowMeow" is offended by the nerd term. Nope, not at all....:laughlol:

I'm not a nerd, and if I was, I wouldn't be offended. Sticks and stones, you know? I just find your post to be, like, a caricature of some high-school mentality.

[El Gordo]

I'm not a nerd, and if I was, I wouldn't be offended. Sticks and stones, you know? I just find your post to be, like, a caricature of some high-school mentality.

It's a good thing to embrace your inner nerd. Don't fight it.:laughlol:

[BaltimoreTerp]

It's a good thing to embrace your inner nerd. Don't fight it.:laughlol:

Haven't you been reading? If you do, Tony feels he must mock you

[SilentJames]

I swear to God this is dumb.

The biggest nerd here is ME. We all know this.

I read histories for fun! My favorite book is Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. My fiancee has a full bookshlef full of nothing but Tolkien.

For my birthday I am getting a bobblehead made out of ME!

I have a hat that reads: Tosche Station

My screen name is an homage to Kevin Smith.

I am the Nerd Duke, bow before me.

[eb45]

Um, I write 2000+ word treatises on baseball stats on message boards when I should be reading Nietzsche, then I go off and watch Firefly with my friends before going to bed and waking up for a lecture on the Paris Commune.

My favorite movie is Clerks, and I hate the sequel because I think it strayed from most of the things that made the original great.

I am currently working on a paper that views The Wire through the lens of 17th and 18th century social contract theorists.

I recently wrote a paper reconciling the apparent views on religious toleration Thomas More showed in Utopia with the rather intolerant views he showed in his actual life.

For my last birthday, I got a Batman comic written by Kevin Smith.

I download demos from unsigned bands off of Bandcamp.

I think I win the nerd fight.

[BaltimoreTerp]

I swear to God this is dumb.

The biggest nerd here is ME. We all know this.

I read histories for fun! My favorite book is Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. My fiancee has a full bookshlef full of nothing but Tolkien.

For my birthday I am getting a bobblehead made out of ME!

I have a hat that reads: Tosche Station

My screen name is an homage to Kevin Smith.

I am the Nerd Duke, bow before me.

Um, I write 2000+ word treatises on baseball stats on message boards when I should be reading Nietzsche, then I go off and watch Firefly with my friends before going to bed and waking up for a lecture on the Paris Commune.

My favorite movie is Clerks, and I hate the sequel because I think it strayed from most of the things that made the original great.

I am currently working on a paper that views The Wire through the lens of 17th and 18th century social contract theorists.

I recently wrote a paper reconciling the apparent views on religious toleration Thomas More showed in Utopia with the rather intolerant views he showed in his actual life.

For my last birthday, I got a Batman comic written by Kevin Smith.

I download demos from unsigned bands off of Bandcamp.

I think I win the nerd fight.

Tony hates you both, too :laughlol:

[SteveA]

Give me stats and never let me look at a player or talk to a scout. Give you every scout in the game but nobody in your organization can write down a statistic. I will build the better team.

Really? You would be able to draft high schoolers without looking at them at all, to see what body type they had and whether htey might be able to add muscle to their frame or not? And of course there is an INCREDIBLE variance between different levels of high school ball from state to state, from county to county, from public school to private school. Yet you would be able to determine which high school players to draft based SOLELY on stats? Or else you would go only with college players where there is a bit more reliable statistics to measure them, but you would be handicapping yourself by ignoring completely the high school market.

And how would you statistically evaluate, without EVER having a scout watch them, which 16 year old kids from the Dominican to sign? Or would you ignore that market entirely too?

I'm skeptical of your claim, if it wasn't TIC.

[SilentJames]

Um, I write 2000+ word treatises on baseball stats on message boards when I should be reading Nietzsche, then I go off and watch Firefly with my friends before going to bed and waking up for a lecture on the Paris Commune.

My favorite movie is Clerks, and I hate the sequel because I think it strayed from most of the things that made the original great.

I am currently working on a paper that views The Wire through the lens of 17th and 18th century social contract theorists.

I recently wrote a paper reconciling the apparent views on religious toleration Thomas More showed in Utopia with the rather intolerant views he showed in his actual life.

For my last birthday, I got a Batman comic written by Kevin Smith.

I download demos from unsigned bands off of Bandcamp.

I think I win the nerd fight.

My letter to the editor was PUBLISHED in a GREEN ARROW comic written BY Kevin Smith.

I played Baritone Saxophone in my HS marching band

I wrote a paper on the War of 1812 titled: "How Baltimore Saved America"

I am a HS Civics teacher - I use the word CIVICS

My last sick day was spent watching MSTK3K, all day

I am a member of the International Thespian Society

My longest paper in college was about Diderot's Encyclopedia and its influence on enlightenment France

I gave my fiancee an 19th century edition of Dante's Inferno for our anniversary.

[Miller192]

My letter to the editor was PUBLISHED in a GREEN ARROW comic written BY Kevin Smith.

I played Baritone Saxophone in my HS marching band

I wrote a paper on the War of 1812 titled: "How Baltimore Saved America"

I am a HS Civics teacher - I use the word CIVICS

My last sick day was spent watching MSTK3K, all day

I am a member of the International Thespian Society

My longest paper in college was about Diderot's Encyclopedia and its influence on enlightenment France

I gave my fiancee an 19th century edition of Dante's Inferno for our anniversary.

Yeah, you win.

[Stotle]

Give me stats and never let me look at a player or talk to a scout. Give you every scout in the game but nobody in your organization can write down a statistic. I will build the better team.

If you are talking about Major League players with a track record, I could buy it. If you are talking about anything aside from that, I call shenanigans and so does most of baseball (I think).

[eb45]

I bought my friend that Kevin Smith Green Arrow comic for her birthday.

I came in fifth place in the state of Maryland in extemporaneous speaking my senior year of high school and competed at several national tournaments.

I have a fish named Thales.

I spent my last long weekend watching and recovering from a Lord of the Rings extended edition marathon.

I maintain a running album of the year list.

I can give a decent explanation of Spinozist philosophy.

I took the AP Computer Science test despite the fact that I had not taken the class and that I had already decided I would be studying a weird hybrid of philosophy, history, and journalism. And I got a 4.

I once compared an argument based on batting average to Thrasymachus defining justice as the will of whoever had longer arms.

[BaltimoreTerp]

This thread is finally getting good

[Tony-OH]

I swear to God this is dumb.

The biggest nerd here is ME. We all know this.

I read histories for fun! My favorite book is Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. My fiancee has a full bookshlef full of nothing but Tolkien.

For my birthday I am getting a bobblehead made out of ME!

I have a hat that reads: Tosche Station

My screen name is an homage to Kevin Smith.

I am the Nerd Duke, bow before me.

See, now that's embracing your inner nerdom.

I'm glad to se someone doesn't take this stuff so seriously. Where's that "Internet: Serious business" photo when I need one.