Should the Orioles sign Hardy to a 3 year contract extension?

[GoldGlove21]

If we trade Hardy and get back a couple of prospects who will play ss.

I would want to extend Hardy. You know what you have with him. Prospects are prospects.

If we sign Hardy, then who plays pitches, plays first, or DH's? Not having a shortstop is the least on my worries when the team currently has the shortstop and are 16 games under .500 coming out of the break and the starters are likely the worse in baseball? Come on now, we aren't talking about the Cardinals, Brewers or even Pirates looking for a shortstop, it is the Baltimore Orioles!

[GoldGlove21]

Essentially you are saying a team would rather give up a known prospect of their's for a rental of Hardy, even though they are out of contention, and a unknown prospects in the picks, than hang on to what they already know has value. Doesn't make much sense to me. Why not hold on to Hardy and get the picks ourselves?

Are the Cardinals, Brewers, Braves, Reds and Pirates out of contention? Hardy has value and there are multiple teams that could use a shortstop who can both field his position and provide a boost to the lineup. He could hit 20 homeruns in the second half and the Orioles are still one of the worse 5 teams in baseball at the end of the year.

[carolinaoriole]

I do not need to prove anything to you at all. If you can not see it I am cool with it. I think that Buck sees it my way and I will compfort myself with that against the harsh reality that you disagree. You seem to want to push me for some strange reason are you trolling me?

[carolinaoriole]

If we sign Hardy, then who plays pitches, plays first, or DH's? Not having a shortstop is the least on my worries when the team currently has the shortstop and are 16 games under .500 coming out of the break and the starters are likely the worse in baseball? Come on now, we aren't talking about the Cardinals, Brewers or even Pirates looking for a shortstop, it is the Baltimore Orioles!

He seems like a player we would be trading for not tradin away. They are our Baltimore Orioles. If we trade him would you give the Orioles credit when his replacement is hitting 220 and making errors on a nightly basis. I can see your point. I just disagree. Thanks fot the input.

[GoldGlove21]

The Twins, Mariners and Padres are likely done. They won't be adding rental players. Texas doesn't need a SS. Boston may prefer to go for pitching and stick with Lawrie/Scutaro.

My point was that there are teams out there in playoff contention that would find a guy like Hardy useful. I agree that the Padres are done, but I wouldn't go as fas as to say that the Twins and Mariners are done. 6.5 games back is not far off from Reds at 4 games back and everyone keeps throwing our players over to them in virtual trades. When it comes to Texas I was thinking about the Blue Jays SS and not theirs. Andrus is pretty good and Toronto is out of it in the AL East at this point.

[GoldGlove21]

He seems like a player we would be trading for not tradin away. They are our Baltimore Orioles. If we trade him would you give the Orioles credit when his replacement is hitting 220 and making errors on a nightly basis. I can see your point. I just disagree. Thanks fot the input.

You mean when Hardy makes an error that leads to a 13-4 loss verses a 11-4 loss? If the team can't get over the .500 market then they are probably not fun to watch unless you see growth from the young guys. The Orioles started the season with a rotation of Guthrie, Matusz, Arrieta, Tillman and Bergesen. 3/5's of this group got demoted to the minors and it is not like Arrieta is anything near league average in ERA. Our "Ace" has a 4.18 ERA! Until we pitch well it is not going to matter how well we hit. The Orioles team ERA is around 5 and we are scoring 4 runs a game with Hardy in the lineup. Do you think the league will allow Hardy to bat for the DH, 1B and 2B slots as well? If not then he is not going to help us anymore than he already has moving forward. If healthy of course....

[GoldGlove21]

I do not need to prove anything to you at all. If you can not see it I am cool with it. I think that Buck sees it my way and I will compfort myself with that against the harsh reality that you disagree. You seem to want to push me for some strange reason are you trolling me?

I think Buck would prefer that we buy a lot of our players at this point. Manager's keep their job by winning, Buck coming to Baltimore and struggling doesn't help his resume. I do not know of any manager who would prefer to wait 3-5 years for his team to be good when his job is tied to winning now. I am not saying I do not like Hardy, when healthy he is a good player. I just think the Orioles have so many holes that we will never have Hardy on a contending team over the next 3 years. After that he is 32 and needs to be extended again. Usually the injuries tied to your youth catch up to you as you age. An injury prone Hardy is not going to be less injury prone as he ages.

[carolinaoriole]

I think Buck would prefer that we buy a lot of our players at this point. Manager's keep their job by winning, Buck coming to Baltimore and struggling doesn't help his resume. I do not know of any manager who would prefer to wait 3-5 years for his team to be good when his job is tied to winning now. I am not saying I do not like Hardy, when healthy he is a good player. I just think the Orioles have so many holes that we will never have Hardy on a contending team over the next 3 years. After that he is 32 and needs to be extended again. Usually the injuries tied to your youth catch up to you as you age. An injury prone Hardy is not going to be less injury prone as he ages.

You have many valid points here. I simply diagree and think he is one of the better ss around and I would want to keep him.

[Singleton]

I am sure the trade package we would get for him would be very strong.

But even putting that aside for a second...Is 3 years too many for Hardy? The answer to that, if he stays healthy or even can play 130 games a year, is definitely a no.

But what if he plays 100 games a year? Then what?

Law is right, oft injured players tend to keep getting injured, especially as they get older.

So, what should we assume here? I would assume that he averages 115 games a year for the next 3 years.

Now, in those 3 years, he could still very well be worth his contract in terms of WAR. But is just being worth his contract good enough?

Its the same argument we had with BRob. I felt BRob would end up being worth his contract if he stayed healthy but still didn't see it being a smart move and it was too much of a risk because of age and position. Now, I think many of us would be happy to dump the deal or even see him retire and take that money off the books.

I'm not sure of this at all. The only team in the AL who might be interested is Boston. Is shortstop where they seek to improve? Yes, Cincy could be in the market but they seem more focused on pitching.

If there is one thing AM has demonstrated that he's pretty good at, it's making trades. Even if you despise AM, you have to recognize that every GM in baseball would have had some preliminary conversations with other GMs to determine the interest level in Hardy.

If I weren't confident I could flip him for good young talent, I'd sign him to a 3 year deal. Draft picks are nice but in our situation, it would be tough to wait for them to develop when in the meantime, we're certain to be shooting blanks.

[GoldGlove21]

You have many valid points here. I simply diagree and think he is one of the better ss around and I would want to keep him.

I really like Hardy too and I am not against a fan of baseball having a soft spot for a set of players. I have just seen a lot of movies where good actors be done in by poor scripts. You recognize and appreciate the actor, but that doesn't mean he can stop the movie from being total crap.

[GoldGlove21]

I'm not sure of this at all. The only team in the AL who might be interested is Boston. Is shortstop where they seek to improve? Yes, Cincy could be in the market but they seem more focused on pitching.

If there is one thing AM has demonstrated that he's pretty good at, it's making trades. Even if you despise AM, you have to recognize that every GM in baseball would have had some preliminary conversations with other GMs to determine the interest level in Hardy.

If I weren't confident I could flip him for good young talent, I'd sign him to a 3 year deal. Draft picks are nice but in our situation, it would be tough to wait for them to develop when in the meantime, we're certain to be shooting blanks.

Hardy is going to be a type-A in all probability. A team could give us two quality prospects and still get them back in next years draft. Hardy will likely be the best middle infielder available at the deadline if he doesn't extend. People will say that we should be very happy to have such a great player in one sentence, but will follow it with the notion that the player wouldn't bring back anything in value.

[El Gordo]

Are the Cardinals, Brewers, Braves, Reds and Pirates out of contention? Hardy has value and there are multiple teams that could use a shortstop who can both field his position and provide a boost to the lineup. He could hit 20 homeruns in the second half and the Orioles are still one of the worse 5 teams in baseball at the end of the year.

These are the teams we should talking to about Hardy. Do you think I'm arguing against trading him? I voted to extend him because I don't believe the O's would trade anyone else along with him, so just trading Hardy is pretty useless IMO.

[flashjordnk]

These are the teams we should talking to about Hardy. Do you think I'm arguing against trading him? I voted to extend him because I don't believe the O's would trade anyone else along with him, so just trading Hardy is pretty useless IMO.

The injury risks really scare me off a guy like Hardy. I think he's got real short term value to other teams and agree with GG21 that other teams that might let him walk like Cinci might pay a high price for him. Though in that case they'd probably want to hold onto Cozart.

Either way extending him BEFORE the trade deadline just seems silly right? I'd be pretty disappointed if they inked him long term and handcuffed themselves and some team got really desperate in the next two weeks.

[Singleton]

Hardy is going to be a type-A in all probability. A team could give us two quality prospects and still get them back in next years draft. Hardy will likely be the best middle infielder available at the deadline if he doesn't extend. People will say that we should be very happy to have such a great player in one sentence, but will follow it with the notion that the player wouldn't bring back anything in value.

Well, it is obvious. Only teams in contention would add Hardy at this point. Only a few teams have a need at shortstop and then -- perhaps the other key is -- they have to decide that this is the hole they want to fill.

You keep saying trade trade trade...but whom too? Just working off the AL -- Texas, Angels, Clev, Detroit, WSox and Yankees don't have the need. The Rays are extremely unlikely. Is shortstop really the position of need for the Red Sox.

In the NL, perhaps you are talking about Atl, Cincy and the Giants?

How many players bring back 2 quality prospects in a deadline deal? And by "quality" I'm not talking bullpen arm.

So that's 4 teams to work with -- and again -- every one of those teams could choose (and seem to be choosing) to fill their needs in other ways.

I'm not saying "don't trade." If you can get the bonanza you think is out there, then swell - I hope AM does it. But I feel confident that AM -- and any GM -- would have had a chat with his buddies Walt, Theo, Brian, and Frank and gotten a sense at least in vague terms their level of interest. And if the offers aren't so big -- then we are really choosing extend or take the picks. In our case...I'd extend if it is a 3 year, market rate deal.

[Hooded Viper]

Showalter really likes Hardy, he is a nugget. I find it very difficult to believe they let him go unless some team absolutely blows them away. Hell the best case scenario would be to get a major package of players and then re-sign him in the offseason, although that won't happen.

Let's not forget, Buck is here for 3 years and he wants to win now. He didn't sign to be part of a rebuild.