We have ourselves some OK positional players...

[NewMarketSean]

So I should strive to be like you? Bring something to the thread and then call everyone else a moron when they disagree with you? Got it.

Or you can just try to bring something to the thread. Which you didn't.

[gtown]

I agree with everything else you said, but I'm not sure why Mora's on the list of great seasons.

Oops, you're right--his big season was 2004, when he was an infielder. Had the year wrong.

[Guest]

For most of the losing seasons, the Orioles have suffered from what I call Joe Orsulak syndrome. Orsulak was a popular player whose best numbers were with the Orioles but for his career is a 3rd or 4th outfielder. The fan base seems enamored with this type of player. Sadly, having three Joe Orsulaks in your outfield isn't a formula for winning. Problem is, most teams generate a lot of offense from their outfields. Even the Dodgers have two studs in their outfield. So let's look back since 1998. How many truly great outfield seasons have we seen?

Eric Davis - 1998

Albert Belle - 1999 (some in RF, some at DH)

Melvin Mora - 2001 (mostly in CF)

Nick Markakis - 2008

And including Markakis is pushing it.

Now look at the players who have received significant time in the Orioles OF in that era:

Marty Cordova, Chris Singleton, Jay Gibbons, Larry Bigbie, Luis Matos, David Newhan, Jerry Hairston, Eric Byrnes, Corey Patterson, Jay Payton, Nolan Reimold, Felix Pie.

There have been others--Adam Jones and Luke Scott were decent, although in Scott's big year, he played DH-1B more than LF. We had Brady near the end of his career and Sammy Sosa as well.

I see a lot of 4th outfielders on the list and I'm being generous.

What's worse is, it's what we as a fan base have come to expect from the O's outfield. That's gotta improve.

Our bar is so low anymore...in the "good old days" our good players went into the hall of fame. Now we dont...even have any of those. And having those kinds is why we were considered GOOD and when there was an "oriole way". Having mediocre fill-in warm bodies leaves us in last place.

[UMDTerrapins]

While I can't speak for SG, I am not saying that Angle should't get a look. What I am saying is if hes a "hope" at all we are screwed. And even if he gets all of September to show us something, and performs, it won't tell us anything as its just a handful of games. You still have to go into the off season with a huge hole in LF.

Ok. I agree that virtually nothing he does should assure him of a spot next year. But we can learn a lot in that time about his makeup. Can he steal with similar effectiveness at the ML level? Can he adapt to better pitching with his spray hitting approach? Perhaps the most we can hope to learn about him for 2012 is if he's a serviceable roster replacement for Pie. It seems obvious to me that Reimold/Pie is not an acceptable solution for 2012. I'm all for dealing Pie this offseason....hopefully as part of a larger deal. So the only reason I can think of to NOT give Angle some playing time is to try and give Pie a chance to put up some numbers that improve his trade value. I just don't think that he'll have much value regardless of what he does the rest of the way. So I'd rather see Angle.

[Sports Guy]

I'm jumping on late here, but are we saying that Angle should not get a look this fall? It's one thing to say you don't have high expectations for the guy, but at least let's see what we've got. We've already shed a couple of lesser prospects that could have helped this year (Turner/Beato), with nothing in return. Do they all have to be Machado's for us to give them the time of day? What's with the resistance? The season is dead. Let's get some intel at least.

Wildcard said that if he can show he has a good OBP in the month of September, that he could be our leadoff guy next year vs righties.

My point was and is that it doesn't matter what he does in a small sample of at bats and that any plan where Angle is getting significant at bats is a flawed one.

I do think he has a place on this team as a bench player. Maybe he can be what we hoped Pie would be without the pop in his bat? I don't know but with Pie taking a big step backwards without Crow this year and with his salary a little on the high side, he is vulnerable to not being brought back and perhaps, a guy like Angle could be in position to take his spot.

[NewMarketSean]

Wildcard said that if he can show he has a good OBP in the month of September, that he could be our leadoff guy next year vs righties.

My point was and is that it doesn't matter what he does in a small sample of at bats and that any plan where Angle is getting significant at bats is a flawed one.

I do think he has a place on this team as a bench player. Maybe he can be what we hoped Pie would be without the pop in his bat? I don't know but with Pie taking a big step backwards without Crow this year and with his salary a little on the high side, he is vulnerable to not being brought back and perhaps, a guy like Angle could be in position to take his spot.

Sorry SG, that made me laugh. Pie has 0.0 home runs this year and a .278 SLG. There is no pop, and whatever pop he did have, is gone.

[Sports Guy]

Sorry SG, that made me laugh. Pie has 0.0 home runs this year and a .278 SLG. There is no pop, and whatever pop he did have, is gone.

Well, he has proven in his MiL and ML career that he has some pop in his bat.

No idea what has happened to him this year though.

He is quietly one of the bigger disappointments on the team this year.

[Guest]

Sorry SG, that made me laugh. Pie has 0.0 home runs this year and a .278 SLG. There is no pop, and whatever pop he did have, is gone.

Man, our team just sucks the life out of these players! He seemed to have pop last year.

[Guest]

Well, he has proven in his MiL and ML career that he has some pop in his bat.

No idea what has happened to him this year though.

He is quietly one of the bigger disappointments on the team this year.

I lose track of the disappointments and why they disappointing.

[wildcard]

I guess a lot depends on what Matt Angle the O's will be getting. If Matt has matured over the last few months then we might be getting a comparable player to Brett Gardner.

Matt's two month plus at AAA look like this:

June 315/406/405/812, 8 steals, one homer, 22 runs scored

July 378/422/476/898, 10 steals one homer, 14 runs scored

Aug 345/375/483/858

Matt was not near as good in Apr and May.

For the year versus righthanded pitching he is:

257 ab, 59 r, 12 d, 3 t, 4 hr, 24 rbi, 21 steals 323/385/440/825

His numbers versus righties compare very well with what Brett Gardner did his last year in the International league.

Gardner at 24

426 ab, 68 r, 12 d, 11 t, 3 hr, 32 rbi, 37 steals 296/414/422/837

Both hit lefthanded

Angle is about a year behind Gardner is development

I am not saying Angle is as good as Gardner. But Angle may hit righthanded pitching well enough to be a asset.

I don't want a guy on the O's that is not going to help the team but Angle looks like he deserves a chance to me.

[Frobby]

I agree with everything else you said, but I'm not sure why Mora's on the list of great seasons.

I assume he meant 2003, not 2001. A .921 OPS is pretty nice, though he only played 96 games so I would not have included it.

[Frobby]

I guess a lot depends on what Matt Angle the O's will be getting. If Matt has matured over the last few months then we might be getting a comparable player to Brett Gardner....

I am not saying Angle is as good as Gardner. But Angle may hit righthanded pitching well enough to be a asset.

I don't want a guy on the O's that is not going to help the team but Angle looks like he deserves a chance to me.

He deserves a chance to compete to take over the role Felix Pie has had the last three years. No more than that.

[wildcard]

He deserves a chance to compete to take over the role Felix Pie has had the last three years. No more than that.

How can you look at those numbers and say that?

[Frobby]

How can you look at those numbers and say that?

Because I've watched Matt Angle the whole time he has been in our organization. Because I know he has a career ISO of .067. Because I know he is 25 years old already and can't be expected to get much bigger and stronger.

I really don't know why you have a problem with what I'm saying. Felix Pie has had about 700 plate appearances the last three years. I'm saying Angle could have that kind of a role. That's about as many plate appearances as John Lowenstein had in 1979-81. What's your beef?

[NewMarketSean]

I just glanced at Angle's stats and can tell you he would be lucky to have Felix Pie's career.

He's an OBP guy but his OBP has declined as he's risen in the minors. By the time he reaches Baltimore, he'll be a .250/.310/.300 guy.

Like others have said, a 5th OF on a good team. But of course on Baltimore he'll probably start.