We have ourselves some OK positional players...

[NewMarketSean]

In Hardy, Reynolds and Jones. They are having themselves decent seasons and won't drag us down at their positions. Hardy could get injured again, but besides that they are all pretty consistent players who "should" be counted on for ~.800 OPS or more next year.

So where does that leave us?

Every other position needs to be upgraded. Sorry Markakis, you've been declining for three years. Wieters has never lived up to the hype. If upgrades are available, get them. Upgrade 1B, 2B and LF too.

There is a lot of work to be done.

Also, I didn't mention the pitching at all because the Orioles will never spend to improve the rotation and shouldn't spend to improve the bullpen. They'll go with what they have next year come hell or high water.

So in basic terms, it's time to actually buy the bats and hope beyond hope that our pitchers can get their heads our of their behinds and pitch like their capable of.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Sorry Markakis, you've been declining for three years.

Here are Nick's career OPS+ numbers, not in chronological order: 103, 106, 108, 120, 121, 136. Pick the ones from the last three years.

Clearly he has declined from 2008, though - it's not exactly a spoiler to reveal that 136 is his 2008 OPS+.

[DrOrioles90210]

Wieters has never lived up to the hype. If upgrades are available, get them.

You think we need to upgrade at catcher? Who would you say would be an overall upgrade to Wieters? If there are only 4 or 5 guys, catcher probably isn't a position we should be worried about upgrading.

[Nigel Tufnel]

To your larger point, I completely agree that 1B, LF, and DH have been horrible this year, maybe worse than horrible. For next year, maybe Reimold could fill one of them, and maybe Davis could, too but neither are anywhere close to sure things - each is probably less than 50/50.

I guess the good news is that those are three positions where a good organization should be able to find cheap replacements who can at least hit. Earl Weaver could have done it in his sleep. Not sure about the O's chances, though.

[vab]

In Hardy, Reynolds and Jones. They are having themselves decent seasons and won't drag us down at their positions. Hardy could get injured again, but besides that they are all pretty consistent players who "should" be counted on for ~.800 OPS or more next year.

So where does that leave us?

Every other position needs to be upgraded. Sorry Markakis, you've been declining for three years. Wieters has never lived up to the hype. If upgrades are available, get them. Upgrade 1B, 2B and LF too.

There is a lot of work to be done.

Also, I didn't mention the pitching at all because the Orioles will never spend to improve the rotation and shouldn't spend to improve the bullpen. They'll go with what they have next year come hell or high water.

So in basic terms, it's time to actually buy the bats and hope beyond hope that our pitchers can get their heads our of their behinds and pitch like their capable of.

That's not true. Hunter has already been brought in and there will be 2 or 3 more new starting pitchers next year. Maybe not big names but certainly guys with some major league track record. After this season, it will be a long time before you see multiple starting pitchers without at least one full major-league season under their belts in the rotation to start a season in Baltimore. As for the offense, the Markakis, Wieters, Jones, Reynolds, Hardy core is going to have to be good enough. Everything has to go toward pitching, speed and defense this offseason.

[NewMarketSean]

That's not true. Hunter has already been brought in and there will be 2 or 3 more new starting pitchers next year. Maybe not big names but certainly guys with some major league track record. After this season, it will be a long time before you see multiple starting pitchers without at least one full major-league season under their belts in the rotation to start a season in Baltimore. As for the offense, the Markakis, Wieters, Jones, Reynolds, Hardy core is going to have to be good enough. Everything has to go toward pitching, speed and defense this offseason.

If they are going to bring in 2 or 3 warm bodies for the rotation they might as well go with the guys they would be replacing.

[Sports Guy]

And that's the problem with the Hardy extension and a potential extension to Jones.

Way too much money tied up into good but not great players.

[Sports Guy]

Please make another 5 threads NMS. Not sure if we get it yet.

And what discussion are you bringing to the board?

[wildcard]

I would spend big money on LF. Hoes is probably going to be in the major within the next year. I would like to see if Angle can put up a good OBP during Sept. If he can he might be the O's leadoff hitter against righthanded pitching next year.

2nd base has a lot of candidates internally. Roberts is there if healthy. Adams is probably ready to take over if he shows decent defense in Sept. Andino is probably the best defender and should be the UIF that can be a defensive replacement when needed. Blake Davis is probably AAA depth.

3B and DH - Chris Davis gets a shot a 3B for the rest of the year with DH being a fall back. This is where the O's need to spend IMO.

Relievers - The O's need to add some quality arms in the pen. Maybe trades. Maybe FA.

[wildcard]

If they are going to bring in 2 or 3 warm bodies for the rotation they might as well go with the guys they would be replacing.

Agree. The only addition to the rotation I think we will see is who ever they get for Guthrie if he is traded.

[Sports Guy]

I would spend big money on LF. Hoes is probably going to be in the major within the next year. I would like to see if Angle can put up a good OBP during Sept. If he can he might be the O's leadoff hitter against righthanded pitching next year.

2nd base has a lot of candidates internally. Roberts is there if healthy. Adams is probably ready to take over if he shows decent defense in Sept. Andino is probably the best defender and should be the UIF that can be a defensive replacement when needed. Blake Davis is probably AAA depth.

3B and DH - Chris Davis gets a shot a 3B for the rest of the year with DH being a fall back. This is where the O's need to spend IMO.

Relievers - The O's need to add some quality arms in the pen. Maybe trades. Maybe FA.

Any play that has him getting significant playing time is an awful plan.

[wildcard]

Any play that has him getting significant playing time is an awful plan.

Oh, I see. You are all for developing players except when it is time to play them in the majors. Then they are not good enough.

The O's need speed and they need guys the can get on base. Angle has shown both in the minors. He has been getting on base at about a .400 rate for the last few months. He hits righties much better then lefties so he is a good platoon candidate in left. We will not know until he gets a chance in the majors as to how good he can be at this stage. I hope he gets a chance to show that in Sept. That way the O's will have a idea whether he figures in their plans next.

[Sports Guy]

Oh, I see. You are all for developing players except when it is time to play them in the majors. Then they are not good enough.

The O's need speed and they need guys the can get on base. Angle has shown both in the minors. He has been getting on base at about a .400 rate for the last few months. He hits righties much better then lefties so he is a good platoon candidate in left. We will not know until he gets a chance in the majors as to how good he can be at this stage. I hope he gets a chance to show that in Sept. That way the O's will have a idea whether he figures in their plans next.

I want to develop players that are good...Angle isn't good.

He has a role as a pinch runner/defensive replacement/5th OFer type role.

But any plan where he is getting significant playing time is very flawed and very poor.

[wildcard]

I want to develop players that are good...Angle isn't good.

He has a role as a pinch runner/defensive replacement/5th OFer type role.

But any plan where he is getting significant playing time is very flawed and very poor.

If Angle can carry his minor OBP, speed, base stealing ability to the majors he will be good. He may be the leadoff hitter the team needs. (At least against righthanded pitching.)

[Sports Guy]

If Angle can carry his minor OBP, speed, base stealing ability to the majors he will be good. He may be the leadoff hitter the team needs. (At least against righthanded pitching.)

Highly unlikely that he can.

Again, bench guy is fine..Anything more than that is awful.