Dan Klein for Teagarden?

[Brendan25]

Now that Randy Henry is a Ranger, would you trade Dan Klein to get him back?

Rep spread

[nevadaO]

I meant to hit "no" but hit "yes" by mistake. No way I give up Klein.

[lovetoaster]

Of course, the point you're trying to make is laughably transparent, but it fails to take into account something very important:

Even as a RP, Klein is a far better prospect than Henry.

Completely agree. I would vote no, I would not trade Klein for Teagarden. But I am not going to vote because the data here is just going to be used to attempt to prove a point that is not valid because the prospects are far from equal.

[lovetoaster]

I meant to hit "no" but hit "yes" by mistake. No way I give up Klein.

Haha...I saw that and was a little surprised. It all makes sense now.

[wiosfan]

Oh, I get it, you're trying to compare Klein's value as a reliever to Henry's value as a reliever.

this..

[LookinUp]

Now that Randy Henry is a Ranger, would you trade Dan Klein to get him back?

This is an awesome question.

By the way, I voted no because I think we could get more for Klein. I'm not sure we could get more for Henry. If we need a 3/4 piece in a larger deal, there are others like him that can fill that role.

For Henry's sake, I really hope SG is right about him. I think there's a 20-40% chance that he ends up a serviceable middle reliever for more than a spell; a pretty low chance that he ends up a serviceable middle reliever for several years, and a very low chance that he ends up an impact relief pitcher. I could be wrong, but his probabilities seem to be in the range of a lot of other pitchers.

[Sports Guy]

Completely agree. I would vote no, I would not trade Klein for Teagarden. But I am not going to vote because the data here is just going to be used to attempt to prove a point that is not valid because the prospects are far from equal.

In what way?

One was a third round pick, the other was a 4th round pick.

Both have an injury history but Klein's is more recent and more severe.

Both have exhibited good control and an ability to keep the ball in the ballpark.

Klein will strike out more guys but also gives up more flyballs by a wide margin.

Henry is 2 years younger and has more professional experience although Klein has pitched at a higher level.

At the same level, Frederick, Henry pitched 15 innings and Klein pitched 15.2 innings. Klein K'ed more batters and had one more walk and gave up 1 more HR.

Very similar stats.

Now, Klein does likely have a better assortment of pitches and from a scouting point of view, that does rate him higher.

However, injuries, fb vs gb pitcher and age will even those things(in terms of rankings) out somewhat IF Klein is relegated to relief prospect only, which is what this thread is hypothetically talking about.

Here is what I think...People are looking at the names and recent prospect rankings and just saying, these 2 aren't close.

But when you delve into things a little more and if you look at it from the point of view as Klein being a reliever only, these 2 are much closer than people want to let on and really, Henry may be more of a sure thing because shoulder injuries are just so iffy for pitchers.

To be honest, I really can't see how anyone can justify trading EITHER of these 2 for a back up catcher who many on here are overrating.

[Sports Guy]

This is an awesome question.

By the way, I voted no because I think we could get more for Klein. I'm not sure we could get more for Henry. If we need a 3/4 piece in a larger deal, there are others like him that can fill that role.

For Henry's sake, I really hope SG is right about him. I think there's a 20-40% chance that he ends up a serviceable middle reliever for more than a spell; a pretty low chance that he ends up a serviceable middle reliever for several years, and a very low chance that he ends up an impact relief pitcher. I could be wrong, but his probabilities seem to be in the range of a lot of other pitchers.

Just to be clear, I have made NO proclamations on what Henry will become.

My point is that this is a young guy that has exhibited many of the attributes you want out of a relief pitcher and instead of pissing away money on one, I would rather have a guy like Henry in there(if he can get to that level)...On top of that, TT just isn't that great and while he does carry some upside, you likely could have gotten a similar player for less.

That is always going to be my stance. I don't care who you give up and who you get in return. If you overpay for a player that you could easily find a clone of for far less, then I think it will always be a poor move unless its some kind of move made at the deadline or something to help put your team over the top in a playoff race.

[Tony-OH]

I prefer Klein and I do agree he is a better relief prospect.

However, for what we have read by some, he is not a true closer prospect...I disagree with that but some feel that way.

So, as of right now, he is slated for a role similar to what Henry(and I am not even talking about the other player yet) is...Middle relief/set up.

Klein is coming off of a major injury....One of the reasons people were ok with the TT trade is because Henry has had injury issues in the past.

On top of all of this, one thing people will do is just look at rankings in the system.

Well, one of the reasons Tony has rated Klein so high is because he feels he will be given a chance to start and because of the upside of him as a starter, Tony has him rated higher.

If Klein was a reliever only, my guess is he is further down his list and if Henry had not injury issues, my guess is he would be a little higher on the list.

Also, Klein was higher up in the system, so that helps with the rankings as well.

However, if you take 2 mr/set up guys and both have injury issues and both are performing very well, does it really matter where they are ranked, provided they have the proper peripherals, stuff and at the right age for their league?

In other words, if Henry is healthy this year and performs as he has and gets to AA and continues to perform well, my guess is Tony has him in the area next year where Klein would be now if he was looked at as a reliever only.

When healthy, Klein's stuff is way better than Henry. I see your point, but I think you are over valuing Henry. If Texas converts Henry to a starter and he can hold up then this trade could come back to haunt us, but i just didn't see enough in his stuff to suggest he's going to suddenly blossom. To me, this looks like a good trade for both teams. The Orioles got a guy they can rest/DH Wieters more often for and the Rangers pick up a potential major league bullpen guy. I really don't understand the the angst over this trade.

[Lucky Jim]

I'll note again the inconsistency of asking for both perfect, maximizing trades and more of them (trades).

[Tony-OH]

Just to be clear, I have made NO proclamations on what Henry will become.

My point is that this is a young guy that has exhibited many of the attributes you want out of a relief pitcher and instead of pissing away money on one, I would rather have a guy like Henry in there(if he can get to that level)...On top of that, TT just isn't that great and while he does carry some upside, you likely could have gotten a similar player for less.

That is always going to be my stance. I don't care who you give up and who you get in return. If you overpay for a player that you could easily find a clone of for far less, then I think it will always be a poor move unless its some kind of move made at the deadline or something to help put your team over the top in a playoff race.

OK, who is his clone that the Orioles could have had for far less? I mean don't get me wrong, I don't think Teagarden is the next Johnny Bench, but he does have some pedigree and has battled some injuries the last few years that could have contributed to some of his offensive woes. I think he's an upgrade over Tatum but then again, I never thought much of Tatum as a player. If they throw in anyone with top 30-value along with Henry as the PTBNL, then I might be swayed to saying we gave up too much, but if it's Henry and a D level guy then I'm fine with that.

[Lucky Jim]

I really don't understand the the angst over this trade.

I don't think there's much to understand, Tony. The OH thrives on discussion (and complaint and criticism is the core of that discussion). So, we're basically one half-formed complaint just awaiting an object to complain about.

We're like an angsty shark. When we stop *****ing, we die.*

I'll also note that we have a comparative information advantage in this trade: the movers behind this trade have first-hand knowledge of Teagarden and first-hand knowledge of Henry. When we complain about raiding the clubs that our FO and manager used to work for we need to keep this in mind. It's not a bad thing.

*Sorry. No offense intended.

[clapdiddy]

When healthy, Klein's stuff is way better than Henry. I see your point, but I think you are over valuing Henry. If Texas converts Henry to a starter and he can hold up then this trade could come back to haunt us, but i just didn't see enough in his stuff to suggest he's going to suddenly blossom. To me, this looks like a good trade for both teams. the orioles got a guy they can rest/DH Wieters more often for and the Rangers pick up a potential major league bullpen guy. I really don't understand the the angst over this trade.

I guess my angst, albeit minute, about this trade is that we are trying to build a team for the "long haul". A player like Henry has some "tools" that could indicate he could help a Major League club at some point in the future...i.e. "long haul".

One could argue that Teagarden is a better player than any remaining free agent backup catcher. I just don't understand why we'd give up a possible valuable arm (keyword "possible") for a guy who we could have acquired for JUST money.

I know I'm in the minority on this, and likely making a bigger deal about it than I should, but it just seems to go against the "building from within" philosophy.

[CA-ORIOLE]

... for a guy who we could have acquired for JUST money.

I think that's one of the false pretenses. Also, money saved can be used for something else.

[mskrulz]

I agree with Tony. I don't see the angst over this deal. Taylor Teagraden has been a bust in the majors but is regarded as a great defensive catcher with some potential if not proven bat skills. The dude is only 27, is cheap, and has a chance to grow with the young pitching staff that we have. Rather than going out and grabbing another Tatum type of catcher we solidified our backup catcher spot for the long term with a guy that has upside. At worst, we gave up a fringy type of prospect for a catcher that will play 25-30 percent of the time and by all accounts is a very good defensive catcher. This is what the Lone Star Ball website had to say...

"Teagarden has, throughout his career as both an amateur and a pro, gotten great reviews for his work behind the plate and game-calling skills, but his bat has always been a question." I will sacrafice the hitting for a guy with upside at the plate if it means that we don't have a tremendous drop off from Wieters when he's not sitting.

http://www.lonestarball.com/2011/12/1/2603585/taylor-teagarden-traded-to-baltimore

That's pretty much what I'm looking for out of my back up catcher.

I also hear that he has a super hot wife so that seals it for me too.