Roch: Trade talks with Jones are "intensifying" again?

[Austin]

When have I ever made up a stat...Never...Using hyperbole or whatever isn't making anything up..

You're right, it's just lying, I guess. If you have a sound argument, you don't need to use hyperbole. It skews the discussion and derails threads.

[mikegallo]

I actually think you are derailing the thread here not LJ. He called you out on the false statement that OPACY is the "best HR environment in baseball" (which people, not just LJ, do around here). I simply read your view that Jones is a product of OPACY due to his power and skill set and thus his value to the Braves is much lower than what the value we as posters have assigned.

You used your logic (Jones sole skillset, power is the product of OPACY) to defend your argument that we are overvaluing Jones. It is very fair to attack that logic. I am giving you examples of players that are similar for one reason or another as well as Jones' past performances as an indication that 2011 may be skewing the splits and certainly isn't enough to categorically determine that Jones' is overvalued by OH posters.

For the record, I think Jones gets both overvalued and undervalued here. I have no idea how the Braves value him and whether they agree with you that he is the product of a hitters ballpark.

The point have any player being over or under valued by the board is an argument no 'outsider' has ever or will ever win, just way to many people who can pick apart your words for you to stand a chance...The fact that AJ is greatly helped by his home park can be seen in his splits. Park factors show OPACY to greatly help his best skill and whether it is the best park or 5th best park in baseball in doing this really doesn't matter.

What matters is we agree OPACY greatly helps HRs compared to the average park...Given that fact and AJs splits we can all concur with the Braves fans in some fashion, who see him as not worth the asking price DD and many other people on here are seeking.

To squabble over the best or 5th best HR environment is, in my mind, a derail of a thread about an AJ trade.

If the thread was HOW MUCH DOES AJ GETS HELPED BY OPACY then yes that small difference from 1st to 5th would be worth the 40 posts about it. Since it is an AJ trade to Braves thread then me trying to percieve his value to the Braves is very important indeed.

[CA-ORIOLE]

We can debate just how far above average it is, but your statement that it is "the best home run environment in baseball" was simpy hyperbole. It isn't.

Of course it isn't. How many times have we gone through this goat rope? Saying something is first when it's actually 5-8th is part of Mike's design. If he didn't do this you wouldn't pay attention and grasp the grand concept here. Get it? You need to adjust to Mike's inegenuous style so you can be enlightened.

That said, your context is nitpicking him and it's clear you're an obvious homer that overvalues Jones.

[El Gordo]

The Giants don't seem like much of a match IMO. They do not have a deep farm system and I would imagine that Belt would have to be in the deal and he wouldn't be enough. He struck out 57 times in 187 last year while batting .225 with a .718 OPS.

I still the Braves make the most sense for what the Orioles are trying to do IMO. I do not think the Angels are a good fit either and I doubt the Nats would be in play based on what they have given up this offseason to obtain Gonzalez. I doubt that Jones would be traded inside the division, but I could see some of our AL East competition being interested in him.

The one team I would reach out to if I were Duquette would be the Cardinals. They have some serious talent in the minor leagues and could be willing to part with some of that talent.

Per Sickels:

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2011/10/19/2502022/st-louis-cardinals-top-20-prospects-for-2012

Woa a lot of guys we could use there. And they could use Jones. I like that 2B Wong, and one of their Troika.

[mikegallo]

You're right, it's just lying, I guess. If you have a sound argument, you don't need to use hyperbole. It skews the discussion and derails threads.

My argument is quite sound but of course the typical Homer Hangout crew has to jump to the defense of LJ and AJ...Changing the argument to the difference in HR park factors (1st vs 5th, like that matters SO MUCH) versus AJs clear problem (hitting on the road) which would clearly lessen his value to the Braves.

[backwardsk]

Backing out 2011, why are Jones' homerun splits basically even (+1 for home) in his previous 3 Oriole seasons? TiredofLosing asked this earlier, I quoted it, but still hasn't been answered.

[Stotle]

Woa a lot of guys we could use there. And they could use Jones. I like that 2B Wong, and one of their Troika.

Wong can't get traded until June/July, but if the deal is mid-season than the Cards could make sense. They REALLY like Wong, Miller and Cox, though.

[mikegallo]

Of course it isn't. How many times have we gone through this goat rope? Saying something is first when it's actually 5-8th is part of Mike's design. If he didn't do this you wouldn't pay attention and grasp the grand concept here. Get it? You need to adjust to Mike's inegenuous style so you can be enlightened.

That said, your context is nitpicking him and it's clear you're an obvious homer that overvalues Jones.

LOL DUH....He gets it sincere and all.

[Lucky Jim]

My argument is quite sound but of course the typical Homer Hangout crew has to jump to the defense of LJ and AJ...

This will get you far.

[Austin]

My argument is quite sound but of course the typical Homer Hangout crew has to jump to the defense of LJ and AJ...Changing the argument to the difference in HR park factors (1st vs 5th, like that matters SO MUCH) versus AJs clear problem (hitting on the road) which would clearly lessen his value to the Braves.

If your argument is sound, why do you need to exaggerate and misrepresent the facts? That's the only reason anyone is jumping on you and the sole reason this thread has been derailed (and I'll do my part by making this my last post on the subject). No one is going to warm up to your "style" if it means being dishonest to drive home a point.

[erb8472]

Backing out 2011, why are Jones' homerun splits basically even (+1 for home) in his previous 3 Oriole seasons? TiredofLosing asked this earlier, I quoted it, but still hasn't been answered.

It hasn't been answered because it goes against their philosophy.

[warrior21]

By the way, "one of" is two words...not one. Perhaps people aren't taking you serious, think your points are invalid, and are debating you because you are contradicting yourself; seemingly on purpose to get a reaction.

[Nigel Tufnel]

My argument is quite sound but of course the typical Homer Hangout crew has to jump to the defense of LJ and AJ...Changing the argument to the difference in HR park factors (1st vs 5th, like that matters SO MUCH) versus AJs clear problem (hitting on the road) which would clearly lessen his value to the Braves.

Uh oh, might be time to bust out your SAT scores in this thread, too.

[mikegallo]

Uh oh, might be time to bust out your SAT scores in this thread, too.

See this is it really just started talking bout AJ being overrated and helped by OPACY LJ jabs with made up stats/morales spelling and 100 posters keep it going.......

I said the best instead of the 5th best big deal....OPACY will help players who have power...It will help pitchers who don't give up homers...In turn it hurts guys who rely on a high AVG or give up more homers than average.

If you want to get on me for SAT scores or being a jerk or whatever thats fine too but do so in some baseball context....The hole getting on me out of baseball context is not something you should do, I mean you can but it's very obtuse.

[byrdz]

Although I would love many things about being a baseball player, the uncertainty caused by trade rumors would really bother me, I suspect. It sucks not to be in control of your own destiny. You almost have to ignore the rumors to retain your sanity.

I think it's a small price to pay for the money they get and ability to retire before 40.