Every time I watch Posey hit...

[sfosfan]

Buster Posey is, in my opinion, what Wieters should have been for us, a superb field general and a legitimate MOO bat.

I love Matt's defense and his ability to handle the pitching staff but his offense has been disappointing. Given all of Matt's hype (mostly justified) and his performance at every level short of the majors, I just thought he was a can't miss MOO bat that would lead us offensively and defensively. I remember watching him in rake in college and the minors and I can't help but be somewhat down as it appears he won't ever do that in the bigs. Given everything else Matt brings to the table, he's certainly not a bust but when I watch Posey rake I just get a bit down.

Maybe it's just me.

No, its not just you. Worse for me since I have to hear it from all the Giants fans around here. My brain hurts trying to figure out how Wieters became a .250 hitter.

[sfosfan]

I felt that way a few years ago. Watching guys like Posey, Brian McCann, and Soto and wonder... wait what! Non of these guys were supposed to be offensive Gods all the while watching super uber prospect Matthew Wieters tappity tap grounders to 2B. But, I'm over it... whatever... Wieters is what he is and I'm fine with that. Could have been 100x worse... he could have been a complete bust. His offense might be a bit disappointing, but his defense and game calling are far superior than advertised when drafted and when you combine the two you have one hell of a catcher.

Sure it could have been worse, and the O's certainly have a history of doing worse with their first pick! Remember, Wieters wasn't drafted that high because of his game calling and defense. Anyway you look at it, it's gotta hurt seeing Posey do so well.

[notyourbuddy]

You squat behind the plate for 132 games and see what it does to your legs and how it effect your bat. It has to have an effect.

If he came out of the gate in April like a firecracker and his production tailed off as the season went on this would make sense, but.... Wieter's best offensive month is typically September after he has already shouldered a season's worth of squatting.

He has showed in his first few years he can hit from the left side.... he has showed in the next few he can hit from the right side.. and he has shown catching a full season doesn't really adversely impact his offense... guy is just a frustrating hitter to watch. If only for one season he could put it all together.

[Billy Button]

If we're honest, most are disappointed with Wieters' offensive output given his minor league stats and the hype around his abilities with the bat. Well, we were hoping for a Buster Posey, but instead we got...who? What catcher past or present does Matt Wieters most resemble?

[Frobby]

I was going to bawl you out for starting yet another thread comparing Wieters to Posey, when we just had one yesterday. But your question of who Wieters does compare to is a good one.

I think Charles Johnson is a decent comp. .762 career OPS, four Gold Gloves. Bill Freehan (.752 OPS, five Gold Gloves in a weaker offensive era) is a pretty good comp, too. Freehan was worth 41.3 rWAR in his career, Johnson was worth 21.0. I'd say they bracket Wieters' value pretty well.

[OFFNY]

O

I've said this before about Matt Wieters. IMRAOAO, the following is his biggest strength:

One of the things that I greatly admire Wieters for is (what I have perceived as) an almost completely oblivious attitude toward all of the hype and the pressure that everyone tried to push on him when he was drafted in 2007, and when he first came up to the Orioles in 2009. Matt Wieters has been working consistently and diligently on becoming the next ........ the next Matt Wieters. Not the next Johnny Bench. Not the next Joe Mauer with power. Not the next, whomever. Simply, the next Matt Wieters.

He wasn't born yesterday, so he had to have been aware of the criticism (and doubtfulness about him ever reaching his incredible potential) that the press and everyone else gave him because he didn't immediately come up and hit 30 home runs and/or knock in 110 runs and bat .320. He simply went about his business on the field during the season as well as working hard in the off-season (in between the 2009 and 2010 seasons, Matt lost 5 pounds and decreased his body fat %), and ever so gradually, he has come into his own, both on offense and on defense.

[Tank]

IMRAOAO? What?

Charles Johnson seems fair. Hopefully he takes a better path as he gets older. Like most catchers he seemed to fall off pretty quickly.

[Spoonless]

IMRAOAO? What?

In My [something][something][something][something] Opinion.

[Pickles]

Like Frobby I was quite annoyed w this thread until you added the part about comps, b/c that legitimately adds an aspect to the conversation that hasn't been covered.

As we all know, comps are imperfect by their very nature. I think it was Jim Morrison, in one of his more lucid moments, who said, "Comparisons are a shortcut to thinking." There's some wisdom to that.

That caveat aside, I'll go w the guy everyone compared Wieters to before he set the MiLs on fire, and that is Jason Varitek. Although, I think he's better than Varitek across the board they're similar players.

[El Gordo]

Thurman Munson with power? Carlton Fisk with a better glove?

[Frobby]

Like Frobby I was quite annoyed w this thread until you added the part about comps, b/c that legitimately adds an aspect to the conversation that hasn't been covered.

As we all know, comps are imperfect by their very nature. I think it was Jim Morrison, in one of his more lucid moments, who said, "Comparisons are a shortcut to thinking." There's some wisdom to that.

That caveat aside, I'll go w the guy everyone compared Wieters to before he set the MiLs on fire, and that is Jason Varitek. Although, I think he's better than Varitek across the board they're similar players.

The reasons I don't like the Varitek comp are (1) Varitek wasn't a major league starting catcher until age 27 (Wieters was 26 last year and had been starting for four years already), and (2) Wieters is plainly the better defensive player (Varitek never topped 28% CS, and had as many as 25 passed balls in a season, though Tim Wakefield was probably the reason). Through age 26, Varitek was worth 0.0 rWAR, while Wieters has been worth 11.5.

[luismatos4prez]

Ivan Rodriguez

Great fielder, both okay hitters at this point in their careers, but most of their value came from fielding. Rodriguez didn't become a great hitter until his 7th year in the league. Little suspicious, but I think he's a good comp to Wieters.

[Pickles]

The reasons I don't like the Varitek comp are (1) Varitek wasn't a major league starting catcher until age 27 (Wieters was 26 last year and had been starting for four years already), and (2) Wieters is plainly the better defensive player (Varitek never topped 28% CS, and had as many as 25 passed balls in a season, though Tim Wakefield was probably the reason). Through age 26, Varitek was worth 0.0 rWAR, while Wieters has been worth 11.5.

This is all very very true. In fairness, I did say I thought Wieters was better across the board than Varitek, but yeah, their early careers don't much alike.

Maybe it's more than a bit superficial.

But they're both SH catchers, w good leadership qualities, who are good hitting catchers but not true impact bats.

Like I said, all comps are imperfect, but if Wieters looks like Vairtek from here on out, he'll end up in the mid 30s WAR for his career, plunk in the middle of the initial range you laid out for him.

[El Gordo]

Pudge.

Great fielder, both okay hitters at this point in their careers, but most of their value came from fielding. Pudge didn't become a great hitter until his 7th year in the league. Little suspicious, but I think he's a good comp to Wieters.

The other Pudge is the better comp IMO. Wieters is the better glove, but if he got his OBP in the neighborhood of .340, he would be pretty much a SH Fisk.

[Frobby]

This is all very very true. In fairness, I did say I thought Wieters was better across the board than Varitek, but yeah, their early careers don't much alike.

Maybe it's more than a bit superficial.

But they're both SH catchers, w good leadership qualities, who are good hitting catchers but not true impact bats.

Like I said, all comps are imperfect, but if Wieters looks like Vairtek from here on out, he'll end up in the mid 30s WAR for his career, plunk in the middle of the initial range you laid out for him.

I'd love to see Wieters have four years with .850+ OPS like Varitek had in 2001 and 2003-05. It's interesting that Varitek only had one year where he topped either the 23 HR or the 83 RBI that Wieters had this year. Let's hope that, like Varitek, Wieters' best years are yet to come.