Just an interesting article(Hamilton)

[Babypowder]

Sigh...

RBI's are lineup dependent. You put Nick into Swisher's lineup slot with the Yankees and he would have knocked in 85-90.

Trying to have a logical discussion with a guy wishing for a 140 million dollar payroll and using RBIs as any kind of barometer should probably be avoided.

[Roll Tide]

Sigh...

RBI's are lineup dependent. You put Nick into Swisher's lineup slot with the Yankees and he would have knocked in 85-90.

Sigh...

I could argue that if Swisher batted 4th in the lineup for the Orioles he would have had more RBI's than Jones. A result of swinging & missing at the low and away curveball.

[Roll Tide]

Trying to have a logical discussion with a guy wishing for a 140 million dollar payroll and using RBIs as any kind of barometer should probably be avoided.

Okay ...not unlike a guy that wants to watch continue scrap heap players play for a mid market team. The Orioles have the money to play. Its not too much to ask them to spend the extra $25 Million, tons of money stashed away during the penny pinching years, and and I almost forgot the MASN money.

Jones .258 with runners in scoring position with 124 abs and a ops of .772.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=jonesad01&year=&t=b

VS Swisher .301 with runners in scoring position in 146 abs and a ops of .995.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=swishni01&year=&t=b

any other questions?

[Can_of_corn]

Okay ...not unlike a guy that wants to watch continue scrap heap players play for a mid market team. The Orioles have the money to play. Its not too much to ask them to spend the extra $25 Million, tons of money stashed away during the penny pinching years, and and I almost forgot the MASN money.

Jones .258 with runners in scoring position with 124 abs and a ops of .772.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=jonesad01&year=&t=b

VS Swisher .301 with runners in scoring position in 146 abs and a ops of .995.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=swishni01&year=&t=b

any other questions?

Why are you comparing Swisher and Jones when Markakis and Swisher was the comparison I made?

Why are you only using one season's worth of data?

(for the record I have not crunched any of the numbers myself)

[Babypowder]

Okay ...not unlike a guy that wants to watch continue scrap heap players play for a mid market team. The Orioles have the money to play. Its not too much to ask them to spend the extra $25 Million, tons of money stashed away during the penny pinching years, and and I almost forgot the MASN money.

Jones .258 with runners in scoring position with 124 abs and a ops of .772.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=jonesad01&year=&t=b

VS Swisher .301 with runners in scoring position in 146 abs and a ops of .995.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=swishni01&year=&t=b

any other questions?

Even if they can afford it, they aren't going to do it. So, talking about it and wishing for it just seems silly to me.

Also, numbers with RISP don't really mean that much. Especially when you use them for one season's worth of data.

[Roll Tide]

Even if they can afford it, they aren't going to do it. So, talking about it and wishing for it just seems silly to me.

Also, numbers with RISP don't really mean that much. Especially when you use them for one season's worth of data.

OH please ...I'm certain if you look at BB reference and compare Jones & Swisher you just look more silly as this was by far Adam's best season.

Since i'm certain you wont post it ...OPS with RISP the last 3 years Swisher 2012 .301 avg .995 2011 .246 avg .845 , 2010 .287 avg .839 OPS

Jones 2012 .258 avg & .772 OPS 2011 .268 avg & .725 OPS 2010 .262 avg & .698 OPS

So let me ask .... Do you think Swisher would have had more RBI based on stats???

[Roll Tide]

Why are you comparing Swisher and Jones when Markakis and Swisher was the comparison I made?

Why are you only using one season's worth of data?

(for the record I have not crunched any of the numbers myself)

I'm much more satisfied with Nick batting #1 or #2 in the order. I'm more concerned about who's batting 3 & 4.

*** Also I was replying to BPs post.****

[Babypowder]

OH please ...I'm certain if you look at BB reference and compare Jones & Swisher you just look more silly as this was by far Adam's best season.

Since i'm certain you wont post it ...OPS with RISP the last 3 years Swisher 2012 .301 avg .995 2011 .246 avg .845 , 2010 .287 avg .839 OPS

Jones 2012 .258 avg & .772 OPS 2011 .268 avg & .725 OPS 2010 .262 avg & .698 OPS

So let me ask .... Do you think Swisher would have had more RBI based on stats???

You ignored the first sentence where I said I don't think RISP numbers mean a whole lot. The sample size is too small every season to make any concrete conclusions. Swisher is a better hitter than Adam Jones, I have no argument to the contrary. I was merely pointing out that using RBIs and RISP numbers to determine hitter's value is generally bad practice.

[Dark Helmet]

You ignored the first sentence where I said I don't think RISP numbers mean a whole lot. The sample size is too small every season to make any concrete conclusions. Swisher is a better hitter than Adam Jones, I have no argument to the contrary. I was merely pointing out that using RBIs and RISP numbers to determine hitter's value is generally bad practice.

Not arguing your point, but someone has to knock the guys in. While RBI might be a useless stat, OBP becomes just as useless, if the guys behind you dont knock you in. I mean, the O's had tons of games when they had alot of base runners, but ni one could get them in. And unfortunately, you have to score more runs than your opponent, to win the game.

[luismatos4prez]

No way you get Butler without giving up Bundy. They might have interest in Chen, since hes young and pretty cheap. But Hammel wont get you in the door on Butler imo.

Butler is a 3 rWAR/year player, and has 2/16 left on his contract with a 12.5 team option. That's 9 rWAR.

Hammel was worth 2.8 rWAR last year, even with all the injuries. For the sake of debate, say he puts that up again. 2.8 rWAR.

Strop was worth 2.4 rWAR last year. I'd say 1.2 rWAR is a reasonable average for him, given the volatility of RPs. With 5 years left on his contract, that's worth 6 rWAR.

God only knows what Arrieta's future holds, but if the Royals like his upside, then that would make this deal about even in my eyes.

Maybe another decent prospect gets thrown in, but I think this could get it done.

You're overrating Butler. He has little to no defensive value and will give you about .310/.370/.490/.860. I think he's just what we need though. Certainly won't take the best pitching prospect in baseball to get it done.

[Dark Helmet]

Butler is a 3 rWAR/year player, and has 2/16 left on his contract with a 12.5 team option. That's 9 rWAR.

Hammel was worth 2.8 rWAR last year, even with all the injuries. For the sake of debate, say he puts that up again. 2.8 rWAR.

Strop was worth 2.4 rWAR last year. I'd say 1.2 rWAR is a reasonable average for him, given the volatility of RPs. With 5 years left on his contract, that's worth 6 rWAR.

God only knows what Arrieta's future holds, but if the Royals like his upside, then that would make this deal about even in my eyes.

Maybe another decent prospect gets thrown in, but I think this could get it done.

You're overrating Butler. He has little to no defensive value and will give you about .310/.370/.490/.860. I think he's just what we need though. Certainly won't take the best pitching prospect in baseball to get it done.

Maybe Bundy was a stretch. But, it will take more than Hammel, (who is a year away from FA, and a coming off a knee injury), a reliever in Strop (who flopped the last month), and an inconsistant starter in Arrieta (who the Royals have plenty of). True, Butler is a DH only, but if made available, plenty of other AL teams would beat that offer. Off the top of my head, the Rangers, Mariners, Blue Jays, and maybe the A's, would all have interest. And more to offer.

[weams]

Yu Darvish and Cespedes were international free agents. I agree that they made a huge impact, but I don't think I am going to put them in the same category as the other guys we are talking about.

Cespedes is getting 8-10 million a year. Prince Fielder is getting 23-24. They aren't quite in the same category as HUGE contracts like Prince, Pujols, Cliff Lee, etc.

Cespedes was also like buying an IPO. Could be Google, Could be Face Book. It really was a Casino on 40. Beane won. No 20 Million per year free agent has made a positive contribution for a team over the life of his contract.

[xKHx]

Cespedes was also like buying an IPO. Could be Google, Could be Face Book. It really was a Casino on 40. Beane won. No 20 Million per year free agent has made a positive contribution for a team over the life of his contract.

What about Gary Sheffield? I need to look it up but didn't the Yankess even get a few prospects when he was broken down at the end as well?

[xKHx]

Nevermind he only made 14 mill at the height of his career.

[xKHx]

OH please ...I'm certain if you look at BB reference and compare Jones & Swisher you just look more silly as this was by far Adam's best season.

Since i'm certain you wont post it ...OPS with RISP the last 3 years Swisher 2012 .301 avg .995 2011 .246 avg .845 , 2010 .287 avg .839 OPS

Jones 2012 .258 avg & .772 OPS 2011 .268 avg & .725 OPS 2010 .262 avg & .698 OPS

So let me ask .... Do you think Swisher would have had more RBI based on stats???

Johnny I love you but your hatred for Jones is pretty glaring. Jones is 26 had a Fwar of 4.6 Nick sniffed with a 4.1 three seasons ago. Other then that nothing close ohh and there war added up between those three years at the same points in there career? Swisher with a 9.9 and Jones with a 10.1, Jones is just heading in to his Prime and is a better hitter then Swish was at this point in time.