Latest Roch ...

[El Gordo]

LH should not be the starting SS next season, I think everyone agrees with that. I'm confident the SS position will be addressed when all is said and done. The issue that I have are the people saying average major league SS's are available basically in the minors or off the street and we should just pick one up. I'm still looking for those names.

The best long term prospects are Brignac, Andrus,Truinfel, Lillibrdige, and Hu and of them only Hu is ML ready. So we will need a short term solution at SS even if we trade for one of these save Hu. We need a good defensive SS because we are bulding around pitching. To find a good defensive SS who puts up .650-.700 OPS won't be as easy as some people seem to think IMO. That's a border line starter on many ML teams. I would rather play LH for a year than trade a prospect for a short term stop gap.

[Sports Guy]

So, let me get this straight. Now you're claiming that a guy who used to draw a BB once for every 10-15 AB's in the bus leagues can't ever get back to doing that again? Even though he lost it once, but then got it back again in the bus leagues? Is that what you're saying? Really? You're saying that history shows that that almost never happens? That conclusion is based on what exactly?

Never said that(but hey, why let that stop you...you have been putting words into my mouth this whole thread and 2 other HOers just called you on it, so they see it too) but you need to be careful with what numbers you are using....As i pointed out, 82% of the at bats LH has had as a professional, his walk rate was terrible...So, what do you think is the best thing to look at? The 18% you are leaning on or the other 82%??? This goes back to the whole MiL numbers argument...Sure, there are exceptions to the rule but why start someone or build a team with players that you hope can be exceptions? Why not just get more sure things??? You want to hold out hope that someone can actually overcome the odds just so that you can say, see, it can happen...But who cares?

Um, pardon me if I don't waste time doing research on that too. I'm still pondering the wisdom of this idea that a good-glove, no-hit SS can work just fine on a contender, but is completely unacceptable on a team with kid pitchers that's going nowhere during a rebuilding year, while they look for somebody else. It's somehow imperative that the 2008 O's have a better-hitting SS than a contender needs.

The Orioles should be looking at all options. They should be looking to strive for better than a player who will be, at best, 2 wins above a replacement player. If you are fine with the Orioles settling for a bad player, that's fine...However, myself(as well as most of the hangouters) are hoping AM will strive for more.

BTW, just because a very good team can win with a bad hitting SS, doesn't mean that is what you should strive for either. It can work and has proven to work but that doesn't mean it is what you want.

That's a thought, I suppose. Oh, well... I guess I just don't get it ;-)

Finally, we agree on something.

[Sports Guy]

I disagree with this logic, at least a little bit. True, good teams can win with very light-hitting SS that are good defensively. And bad teams won't win even if they have ARod at SS. But, just because a team can overcome a poor player at SS and still win, doesn't mean that having a incredibly bad hitting SS (who's defense can't overcome his offensive woes) is ever a good move or a defensible one. If a team can upgrade a position, they should try to do so. The reason you'll ever see a team like the Red Sox with a crappy no-hit SS, is because they have allocated all of their resources elsewhere, and the crappy no-hit SS is the best player they could find with the amount of resources they could allocate to filling that position.

Luis Hernandez will NEVER be a justifiable option at SS for any team, including a winning team (unless he significantly improves his hitting, at least up to the 650-675 OPS range) because there are always better options available than him for no additional cost. You can improve upon him without using any of your valuable talent or money.

To me its not a question of "can a good team overcome his offense" its a question of "why would a team possibly be stupid enough to try when better players are available for free"?

I agree but the point is you can win with a poor hitting SS if the rest of the team is good....Rshack seems to gloss over that whole point about the rest of the team needs to be good.

[Sports Guy]

The best long term prospects are Brignac, Andrus,Truinfel, Lillibrdige, and Hu and of them only Hu is ML ready. So we will need a short term solution at SS even if we trade for one of these save Hu. We need a good defensive SS because we are bulding around pitching. To find a good defensive SS who puts up .650-.700 OPS won't be as easy as some people seem to think IMO. That's a border line starter on many ML teams. I would rather play LH for a year than trade a prospect for a short term stop gap.

Lillibridge is ML ready.

Aybar is also a solid option.

[El Gordo]

To me, the whole Hernandez argument is moot. If we don't get a capable SS for '08 this offseason, give Bynum the job. He can hit and is a decent fielder. Hernandez can't hit and is a pretty good defender. Edge: Bynum.

Bynum isn't a decent fielder at SS. Or any where for that matter.

[Mackus]

I agree but the point is you can win with a poor hitting SS if the rest of the team is good....Rshack seems to gloss over that whole point about the rest of the team needs to be good.

Right, a good team can overcome a few weaknesses. Thats true about any position. You don't have to have a power hitting 1B. You don't have to have a stud ace SP. You don't have to have a good hitting SS.

That said, if you can find those things, or really, if you can improve at any position without spending any more resources, you'd be idiotic not to.

I don't neccisarily disagree with people saying that Hernandez is the current best in-house option at SS for next year. I definitely disagree if they argue that he can't be improved upon for little to no cost. And I also disagree that it wouldn't be smart to actually spend some to improve upon him pretty significantly, as long as the guy they bring in looks like someone who could be an effective player for at least the next 3-4 seasons.

[Sandwich Pick]

Lillibridge is ML ready.

Aybar is also a solid option.

I actually like Aybar.

Would LAA do Kendrick/Weaver, Aybar, and Adenhart for Bedard? Is that close at all?

[Sports Guy]

Right, a good team can overcome a few weaknesses. Thats true about any position. You don't have to have a power hitting 1B. You don't have to have a stud ace SP. You don't have to have a good hitting SS.

That said, if you can find those things, or really, if you can improve at any position without spending any more resources, you'd be idiotic not to.

I don't neccisarily disagree with people saying that Hernandez is the current best in-house option at SS for next year. I definitely disagree if they argue that he can't be improved upon for little to no cost. And I also disagree that it wouldn't be smart to actually spend some to improve upon him pretty significantly, as long as the guy they bring in looks like someone who could be an effective player for at least the next 3-4 seasons.

Yea, i agree with this....I would probably take Fahey over LH but it is close enough to where I really don't care...They both suck, so whatever.

[Sports Guy]

I actually like Aybar.

Would LAA do Kendrick/Weaver, Aybar, and Adenhart for Bedard? Is that close at all?

Need another player in there.

Weaver isn't realistic...Kendrick or Wood, Aybar, Adenhart and another player would be the deal.

[El Gordo]

Lillibridge is ML ready.

Aybar is also a solid option.

LAA is pretty set on Aybar at SS from what I've read. Also they don't feel Wood is ready this year offensively. Swing is too long and pitch recognition too poor. Yes, Lillibridge is someone we should try to get. I don't think he is as good as Hu; his offensive numbers don't impress me as much. He might be more of a 2B eventually but he would be better than LH if his D is good.

[Mackus]

I have very little interest in Aybar, but a deal of Kendrick, Wood, and Adenhart would be a great offer for Bedard. You probably can't get both Kendrick and Wood, but if only one of those guys are involved, I'm not as high on an Anaheim deal.

[Sports Guy]

LAA is pretty set on Aybar at SS from what I've read. Also they don't feel Wood is ready this year offensively. Swing is too long and pitch recognition too poor. Yes, Lillibridge is someone we should try to get. I don't think he is as good as Hu; his offensive numbers don't impress me as much. He might be more of a 2B eventually but he would be better than LH if his D is good.

To be honest, i would prefer Lillibridge as a second baseman myself...I have read his defense is good(btw, he has been a better offensive player than Hu has)but that he is likely to be a second baseman.

When I read his profile in the BA prospect handbook, it reminded me of BRob's profile when he was younger.

[Sandwich Pick]

I have very little interest in Aybar, but a deal of Kendrick, Wood, and Adenhart would be a great offer for Bedard. You probably can't get both Kendrick and Wood, but if only one of those guys are involved, I'm not as high on an Anaheim deal.

What about Kendrick, Wood, Adenhart, Walden/O'Sullivan, Sweeney for Bedard, Roberts? Only problem is we're still left without a CF. Maybe we can take Matthews off their hands if they throw in some cash or swap out Adenhart/Walden/O'Sullivan for Weaver?

[Fan4Life]

What about a turkey sandwich on wheat, toasted, with lettuce, tomato, Mayo, for Wood, Kotchman and Weaver.... yeah.... probably adding Kotchman is too much... sorry.. couldn't help it...

[Sports Guy]

What about a turkey sandwich on wheat, toasted, with lettuce, tomato, Mayo, for Wood, Kotchman and Weaver.... yeah.... probably adding Kotchman is too much... sorry.. couldn't help it...

Actually, now that you say that, i would require 2 of Kotchman, Kendrick and Wood....Then Adenhart.

I would be fine with 3 of them.