So how about Brian Roberts today?

[Flosman]

Of course it will be a good thing to improve on last year's 2B production. The point is that basically any 2B on a 25-man roster right now could probably be an improvement over last year, so it's not a statement that conveys any kind of meaning.

I think it is a fact that he is the best option to be the starting 2b on opening day for the Orioles based on all of the data available today. He has done enough to beat everyone else out and he is the most likely guy to lead to the highest number of wins. Do you disagree?

With this being said until he stops performing or more likely gets hurt what's the point of all of the hand ringing over him being our 2b and thinking that is a mistake. He has a history that shows he is capable of being a very good player and has done nothing this spring to lead us to believe that is not possible currently. Give DD credit the next four options all look better than we have had in the past and are all firmly in the clubs control if Brob falters.

[El Gordo]

Ach mensch. So you didn't, es tut mir leid. Given that, I'm not quite sure what the point is. If he's just a bit better than last year's second basemen and this year's in-house options, what does that give us? A moderate upgrade over some terrible players. That's certainly not pushing the Orioles to the playoffs.

Auf wiedersehen.

Something for the 10 M. Would you rather have eaten it and signed a marginally better FA. Who did you have in mind? I would rather see Flaherty have the job but not for 10M. I expect Flaherty's glove might be slightly better and he would definitely hit for more power, but Roberts will have better OBP, steal some bases and score more runs.

[El Gordo]

I think it is a fact that he is the best option to be the starting 2b on opening day for the Orioles based on all of the data available today. He has done enough to beat everyone else out and he is the most likely guy to lead to the highest number of wins. Do you disagree?

With this being said until he stops performing or more likely gets hurt what's the point of all of the hand ringing over him being our 2b and thinking that is a mistake. He has a history that shows he is capable of being a very good player and has done nothing this spring to lead us to believe that is not possible currently. Give DD credit the next four options all look better than we have had in the past and are all firmly in the clubs control if Brob falters.

Cue the Jaws music.:laughlol:

[SrMeowMeow]

I think it is a fact that he is the best option to be the starting 2b on opening day for the Orioles based on all of the data available today. He has done enough to beat everyone else out and he is the most likely guy to lead to the highest number of wins. Do you disagree?

With this being said until he stops performing or more likely gets hurt what's the point of all of the hand ringing over him being our 2b and thinking that is a mistake. He has a history that shows he is capable of being a very good player and has done nothing this spring to lead us to believe that is not possible currently. Give DD credit the next four options all look better than we have had in the past and are all firmly in the clubs control if Brob falters.

There is a non-trivial chance he's the best 2B in camp right now. No argument there. But that's not really the conversation.

And, boy is this a cliche, but this is an Orioles message board. There are real concerns that Roberts may give us zero or negative value this season. Are we just supposed to not talk about it? Nobody in this thread has been "hating" on him, just disagreeing with people politely.

[DrungoHazewood]

Something for the 10 M. Would you rather have eaten it and signed a marginally better FA. Who did you have in mind? I would rather see Flaherty have the job but not for 10M. I expect Flaherty's glove might be slightly better and he would definitely hit for more power, but Roberts will have better OBP, steal some bases and score more runs.

I get it. He's probably the best of a motley crew and we should be happy they didn't waste precious resources on something a bit better. The end.

[Flosman]

There is a non-trivial chance he's the best 2B in camp right now. No argument there. But that's not really the conversation.

And, boy is this a cliche, but this is an Orioles message board. There are real concerns that Roberts may give us zero or negative value this season. Are we just supposed to not talk about it? Nobody in this thread has been "hating" on him, just disagreeing with people politely.

I understand the wheels could fall of his kart at any second, I also think most knowledgeable fans know this. There is nothing that he has done to make us think he is going to have negative value this year. He has put himself in the position to be an outliner. It would be stupid to not let this play out. Any of the replacements are still going to be there if he fails. I just think the he is going to stink theme is being over played in light of how he has actually played and looked this spring.

Also when the cracks about the pope declaring a miracle and Blah, blah, blah are constant around here I don't see that as disagreeing politely. I understand you and Drungo are not really in that crowd and you guys are just pointing to the most likely outcome statistically, but the BS spouted off around here about this situation is getting old.

[SrMeowMeow]

I understand the wheels could fall of his kart at any second, I also think most knowledgeable fans know this. There is nothing that he has done to make us think he is going to have negative value this year. He has put himself in the position to be an outliner. It would be stupid to not let this play out. Any of the replacements are still going to be there if he fails. I just think the he is going to stink theme is being over played in light of how he has actually played and looked this spring.

Also when the cracks about the pope declaring a miracle and Blah, blah, blah are constant around here I don't see that as disagreeing politely. I understand you and Drungo are not really in that crowd and you guys are just pointing to the most likely outcome statistically, but the BS spouted off around here about this situation is getting old.

There are idiots everywhere on the spectrum. I don't see the need to chastise Drungo or me because of them. And the reason I think he could have negative value is because he has done a lot to make us think he will. He's been injured, including a devastating and lingering concussion. He's old for a baseball player. He hasn't been good in like a billion years. See? Rational disagreement.

[El Gordo]

There is a non-trivial chance he's the best 2B in camp right now. No argument there. But that's not really the conversation.

And, boy is this a cliche, but this is an Orioles message board. There are real concerns that Roberts may give us zero or negative value this season. Are we just supposed to not talk about it? Nobody in this thread has been "hating" on him, just disagreeing with people politely.

What is the conversation? Should we release him on the chance the wheels could fall off? Just go with one of Flaherty, Navarro, or Cassila, who probably wouldn't be much better, if at all, though they are more likely to stay healthy? Why not stay with him until he gives us a reason not to. Or do you think he has?

[El Gordo]

Bingo. Exactly. We dont need Brian to be Brian of 2009. We just need him to hit .260 with 25 doubles and 10 SB and play decent defense.And stay healthy.

Wow you were a lot quicker to get this than Drungo.

[Barnaby Graves]

Bingo. Exactly. We dont need Brian to be Brian of 2009. We just need him to hit .260 with 25 doubles and 10 SB and play decent defense.And stay healthy.

His OBP over his career has consistently been about 70 points higher than his average. Discounting for potential decline and pitchers being less fearful of his bat, let's say he bats .260 and has an OBP 60 points higher, .320. I'd be happy with that. He would need to slug .380 for an OPS of .700, and that would mean his ISO is .120. He did that relatively consistently earlier in his career. It seems he can run alright so he'll turn some marginal outfield hits into a few doubles or triples others wouldn't get, assuming he can get the ball out there.

Biggest questions regarding his offense, will he recover the healthy LD% and reduce those awful groundball and infield fly rates from last year. I dunno if he can hit 10 home runs but if he can square up again we'll see doubles.

Still very pessimistic about his defense. I hope he shakes the rust off rather than tires out over the course of the season.

[SrMeowMeow]

Have I ever advocated releasing Roberts? My thesis is that he's not a good bet to provide valuable production in 2013. I hope I'm wrong. How do you bridge that gap in your mind?

[El Gordo]

Have I ever advocated releasing Roberts? My thesis is that he's not a good bet to provide valuable production in 2013. I hope I'm wrong. How do you bridge that gap in your mind?

What are you advocating?

[DrungoHazewood]

What are you advocating?

I am advocating letting him play regularly until he a) gets hurt and/or b) plays poorly for about a month. If/when that happens you start transitioning in someone else like Castilla or Navarro. And you deal with the consequences of having an uproductive second baseman, which may have a more obvious impact than it did last year.

At this point there just aren't many options, and Roberts has basically forced their hand. He starts until he can't.

[DrungoHazewood]

What is the conversation? Should we release him on the chance the wheels could fall off? Just go with one of Flaherty, Navarro, or Cassila, who probably wouldn't be much better, if at all, though they are more likely to stay healthy? Why not stay with him until he gives us a reason not to. Or do you think he has?

You know exactly what we're saying here: Roberts is the starter for the time being. His history with the team and his spring performance dictate that. But there are still long odds of him being a good player (I know, I know, he doesn't have to be - last year then won 93 with Andino and some other bums, so they could win 110 with Don Knotts playing second) and pushing the O's forward.

I'll repeat: There are no other reasonable options now. They sink or swim with Brian Roberts at second to start the year.

[El Gordo]

I am advocating letting him play regularly until he a) gets hurt and/or b) plays poorly for about a month. If/when that happens you start transitioning in someone else like Castilla or Navarro. And you deal with the consequences of having an uproductive second baseman, which may have a more obvious impact than it did last year.

At this point there just aren't many options, and Roberts has basically forced their hand. He starts until he can't.

Not that I asked you because I already knew that, but that's what I am advocating as well. I would have thought that was apparent.