TT: Wieters bat becoming a liability from left side

[mikethegimp]

I think we can all shut up about Wieters' batting from the left side after last night. The bottom line is; he and the coaching staff are professionals. You all are just fans who think you know as much about baseball as they do. Well I have some heart breaking news for you. You don't know 1/100th of what these guys know about baseball. Wieters will be fine! Let the kid work some things out. He's faced some really good pitchers. What about the rest of the team's rapidly declining batting average. Let's talk about our horrid offense right now.

[Tony-OH]

I think we can all shut up about Wieters' batting from the left side after last night. The bottom line is; he and the coaching staff are professionals. You all are just fans who think you know as much about baseball as they do. Well I have some heart breaking news for you. You don't know 1/100th of what these guys know about baseball. Wieters will be fine! Let the kid work some things out. He's faced some really good pitchers. What about the rest of the team's rapidly declining batting average. Let's talk about our horrid offense right now.

Hello Troll. I'm sorry that you mistook this board for a troll board, but we are troll-free here at the Hangout. Since we are such idiots, I'll ensure you no longer have to deal with us stupid fans who don't know anything.

[TGO]

By the way, I think Hit Tracker is wrong about the distance on the Wieters homerun. They have the "true distance" as 376, and there's just no way that's accurate. That ball was towards the top of the RF bleachers, wasn't it? He crushed it.

[Going Underground]

The question is how many dollars and years do you give to a great defensive catcher and a .255,21 homer, 80 RBI player? If he ever has to move to another position during his contract and his bat becomes below average at 1B or DH.

[DrungoHazewood]

Not as much as Scott Boras will ask for. They are talking 6 years for Wieters. Without any analysis and not remember what we discussed previously, I would think a 6/78 is about as high as I would entertain. Unless he bats righthanded fulltime, then I might go higher! lol

I don't think that gets it done. Are you talking extension, or buying out two arb years, then four additional? If it's the latter, maybe 6/78 is ok. But if that's just an extension you're paying him for about 2.5 wins a year, when he's been worth 3-5.

[El Gordo]

If Wieters puts up similar offensive numbers the next 3 years, at FA I think he can get 5 years, around 65-70 M. If the bat improves then it goes up. If I were him I wouldn't be in a big hurry to give up too many of my FA years in an extension, unless I am well compensated for them.

[El Gordo]

Russell Martin got 2/18 after a year in which he hit about .218. Just saying. Wieters will be what, 29 when he becomes a FA.

Not sure of your point. At 29 and a GG C, I think Wieters gets 5/13-15 M, if he is hitting around .740 OPS like now. He should be a solid C still at 34. Look at how well a lot really good catchers age. If his bat heats up then he can play at DH/1B and his years and value will increase. So if he is extended he'll want at least 4 of those 5 FA years covered, plus 2 arb years. I'm guessing 6/80 could do it unless he has a monster year this season.

[sfosfan]

Matt made an adjustment. He was taking his left hand off the bat almost hitting with one hand. It was awkward looking and isn't how he looks when he is doing well from the left side. On this swing at least he kept his hand on the bat longer after contact.

Tried to find video to support but couldn't find anything from when he was going bad.

I also remember seeing that and thinking of Walt Ryneack (or however you spell it), the old White Sox batting coach that had almost everyone hitting that way. I thought it looked funny too since Matt never does that batting right handed. But I just brushed it off as an accident.

What's seems odd to me with Matt's switch hitting is that his swing looks different from each side of the plate. The left side he seems more upright, no? But his stance has worked so well for him in the past it's probably not a big deal. Just seems odd since most switch hitters I see have a similar stance from both sides.

[Say O!]

Given how much he has been "rolling over" the ball and grounding out to 2B, Matt needs to stay back on the ball and drive it to left-center field.

I'm amazed at how much Matt pulls the ball. His hit charts are masked by the fact that he switch-hits, but it seems he rarely (if ever) drives the ball the other way.

JJ Hardy started to stay back and hit the ball to RF this weekend. Whenever Cal was slumping, he used to talk about going back to hitting the ball to right-center.

[Going Underground]

Wieters has a career .717 OPS against RHP which is pretty average for a catcher. His top-notch defense, pitching staff management and career .829 OPS against lefties more than makes up for it.

What is pitching staff management? Calling a good game? I have spoken to a couple of pitchers and former catchers and in their opinion is overrated. You are only as good as your pitchers. I don't put Jake's five works in four innings on Wieters and if he has a good game did Wieters do it.

[Norfolk orioles]

Wieters should not be hitting 4th or 5th in this lineup right now. Sorry he just shouldn't.

McClouth, when he doesn't play left, should be the DH and permanent leadoff guy.

Keep manny in the two hole, Markakis in the 3, jones 4 Davis 5, wieters 6 or 7 depending on the matchup, hardy 6 or 7 depending on the matchup, Reimold 8 as DH or lf and Casilla or Flaherty 9th.

Wieters is an automatic out right now and even worse, the way he's been rolling over one pitches if someone is on he's almost an automatic double play.

Other than the walk off grand slam, he has 4 total RBI's this season in 19 games.

Considering the way jones, McClouth, Davis, Markakis and manny have been getting on base in front of him, having 4 total RBI's (again taking out the one salami) in 19 games is flat out inexcusable. Even with the grand slam, I believe he has more double plays than RBI's.

His outs aren't even productive for the most part, he keeps rolling over and hitting weak grounders and with his complete lack of speed he's getting doubles up time and time again.

He needs to be moved down in the order until he figures out a way to start driving the ball more consistently. Making outs is one thing, barely making contact, costing your team baserunners by being unable to drive the ball is something entirely different. He's just not a 4 or 5 hitter.

As a matter of fact, I'd actually consider moving Reimold ahead of hardy and wieters if he continues to improve at the plate.

1. McClouth 2. Manny 3. Markakis 4. Jones 5. Davis 6. Reimold 7. Wieters 8. Hardy 9. 2b

Something along those lines, and of course Buck can play matchups and move guys around here and there as needed. Of course once Wieters finds his stroke, then you can move him back, but right now, he's just a huge liability hitting in the moo.

Thoughts? Overreaction? I don't think we can afford to just keep pretending like he doesn't look terrible at the plate most at-bats.

Again it's not the BA or OBP, it's the general approach and lack of solid contact. He can't consistently drive the ball right now. Lazy grounders kill rallies and he's doing it far too often for a team that is getting the top of the lineup on base at a very high rate so far this year.

[Dipper9]

Wieters should not be hitting 4th or 5th in this lineup right now. Sorry he just shouldn't.

McClouth, when he doesn't play left, should be the DH and permanent leadoff guy.

Keep manny in the two hole, Markakis in the 3, jones 4 Davis 5, wieters 6 or 7 depending on the matchup, hardy 6 or 7 depending on the matchup, Reimold 8 as DH or lf and Casilla or Flaherty 9th.

Wieters is an automatic out right now and even worse, the way he's been rolling over one pitches if someone is on he's almost an automatic double play.

Other than the walk off grand slam, he has 4 total RBI's this season in 19 games.

Considering the way jones, McClouth, Davis, Markakis and manny have been getting on base in front of him, having 4 total RBI's (again taking out the one salami) in 19 games is flat out inexcusable. Even with the grand slam, I believe he has more double plays than RBI's.

His outs aren't even productive for the most part, he keeps rolling over and hitting weak grounders and with his complete lack of speed he's getting doubles up time and time again.

He needs to be moved down in the order until he figures out a way to start driving the ball more consistently. Making outs is one thing, barely making contact, costing your team baserunners by being unable to drive the ball is something entirely different. He's just not a 4 or 5 hitter.

As a matter of fact, I'd actually consider moving Reimold ahead of hardy and wieters if he continues to improve at the plate.

1. McClouth 2. Manny 3. Markakis 4. Jones 5. Davis 6. Reimold 7. Wieters 8. Hardy 9. 2b

Something along those lines, and of course Buck can play matchups and move guys around here and there as needed. Of course once Wieters finds his stroke, then you can move him back, but right now, he's just a huge liability hitting in the moo.

Thoughts? Overreaction? I don't think we can afford to just keep pretending like he doesn't look terrible at the plate most at-bats.

Again it's not the BA or OBP, it's the general approach and lack of solid contact. He can't consistently drive the ball right now. Lazy grounders kill rallies and he's doing it far too often for a team that is getting the top of the lineup on base at a very high rate so far this year.

On one hand, I think you may be overreacting a touch. On the other hand, your bold statement is correct. We cannot ignore the way he is hitting right now. I'd switch him and Nolan for a few weeks until Matt starts hitting. If he finds his groove, move him up. If he doesn't, keep him in the 8 hole.

[Going Underground]

Matt is a streak hitter. May 4,2012 was batting .305. At the end of May it was .226. 2 homers and 7 RBI's in May. Maybe he will get hot in May this year. He seems to be pulling the ball a little more this year. How many hits does he have to the opposite field? He will probably still come in around his ok stats of .250,21 homers and 80 RBI's.

Someone mentioned Russell Martin. They have comparable stats. Martin has a higher .OBP and Matt hits a few more homers. Batting average is nearly identical. .259 for Martin and .258 for Wieters.

[Frobby]

Matt is a streak hitter. May 4,2012 was batting .305. At the end of May it was .226. 2 homers and 7 RBI's in May. Maybe he will get hot in May this year. He seems to be pulling the ball a little more this year. How many hits does he have to the opposite field? He will probably still come in around his ok stats of .250,21 homers and 80 RBI's.

Someone mentioned Russell Martin. They have comparable stats. Martin has a higher .OBP and Matt hits a few more homers. Batting average is nearly identical. .259 for Martin and .258 for Wieters.

I agree, Matt is pretty streaky. At the end of the year, he'll probably been in the .740-.775 range like he usually is. I was hoping he might have a bit of a breakthrough this year, but so far he just looks like the same guy he's been. I'm basically fine with what he is, though I'd hoped for more.

[Tony-OH]

I agree, Matt is pretty streaky. At the end of the year, he'll probably been in the .740-.775 range like he usually is. I was hoping he might have a bit of a breakthrough this year, but so far he just looks like the same guy he's been. I'm basically fine with what he is, though I'd hoped for more.

I think the key with Wieters is to just temper expectations. He's an all-star defensive catcher who is going to be an average bat at best. He'll give us a little pop, but he's also going to be pretty bad rally killer with DPs, weak pops and K's until he ever decides to go back to his earlier (in his career) approach of hitting to all fields from the left side of the plate.