Expectations for the "Solid Six"

[Morgan423]

I dont see the logic of trading Hardy and moving Manny to short.

Yes Manny would be a great shortstop.

But, you would then have to fill the hole at third, and we've been there done that.

Manny and Hardy make a great left side of the diamond combination. I hope they stay together for a few more years.

I agree, but I must say that I like the fact that if someone made us an irresistible deal for Hardy, we are in a position where we could take it and adjust. That definitely wasn't the case before Manny.

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[jamalshw]

I agree, but I must say that I like the fact that if someone made us an irresistible deal for Hardy, we are in a position where we could take it and adjust. That definitely wasn't the case before Manny.

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Agreed. You never say never to anything, but it's not a likely situation. Honestly, we have enough holes to fill this off-season without creating another one in the process.

[wildcard]

I disagree with this. Ideally upgrading the SP should be primary. But realistically there is no way we can do that with out spending much more than PA would accept or trading away too much talent. So realistically the best way to imprioe the team is to focus on LF and to a lesser extent LH DH.

The O's need to get better starting pitching next year or the offense will not matter. Sure the O's should have a good LFer but improving the starters is job#1 IMO.

[Frobby]

The O's need to get better starting pitching next year or the offense will not matter. Sure the O's should have a good LFer but improving the starters is job#1 IMO.

I'd like to improve the starters, but I'm not holding my breath, either. In any event, the group we had at the end of the season was better than what we started the year with, so there may be some improvement without further changes (assuming Feldman is re-signed).

Tillman 3.71

Gonzalez 3.78

Chen 4.07

Feldman 4.27 (O's only; 3.46 with Cubs)

Norris 4.69 (O's starts only; 3.93 with Astros)

The pitchers who Feldman and Norris supplanted include Hammel (5.14 ERA in 23 starts), Garcia (5.88 in 10), Britton (5.45 in 7), Gausman (7.66 in 5) and Arrieta (7.23 in 5). Obviously there will be injuries and someone besides the five listed above will make some starts, but at least all five of these guys have some kind of a track record as a major league starter at this point. I think it's pretty reasonable to expect that our starters' ERA would drop from the 2013 figure of 4.57 to somewhere in the region of 4.20-4.30 (the average for the five above is 4.10).

[Tx Oriole]

I think they should take a serious look at trading Hardy this off-season. He's signed for one more year and he'll be 32 when his next contract begins. Hypothetically, we could move Manny to SS and play Valencia/Flaherty at 3B with Schoop at 2B (or someone else if Schoop isn't ready). A package of Hardy and Norris (who doesn't pitch well at OPACY) could bring back a starting outfielder who fits in age-wise and contract-wise better than any available on the free agent market.

I'm just guessing this idea will not be popular here.

It is not with me. I do like Manny at 3rd. Can Schoop

[Tx Oriole]

It is not with me. I do like Manny at 3rd. Can Schoop

Can Schoop play SS and Hardy 2nd in 2015? I am just thinking of a way to keep

Manny at 3rd. But I am glad that is up to Buck and DD.

[mdbdotcom]

Can Schoop play SS and Hardy 2nd in 2015? I am just thinking of a way to keep

Manny at 3rd. But I am glad that is up to Buck and DD.

As Manny has stated publicly, he'd rather play SS. That being the case, will the O's be able to lock him up long term if they keep playing him at 3B?

[El Gordo]

How are the O's getting better SP? The only way I can see that happening is by Gausman taking a big step up, and Tillman getting a bit better as well. Signing a Feldman type wont do as much, as signing a Beltran, or Granderson, etc.,IMO.

[wildcard]

I'd like to improve the starters, but I'm not holding my breath, either. In any event, the group we had at the end of the season was better than what we started the year with, so there may be some improvement without further changes (assuming Feldman is re-signed).

Tillman 3.71

Gonzalez 3.78

Chen 4.07

Feldman 4.27 (O's only; 3.46 with Cubs)

Norris 4.69 (O's starts only; 3.93 with Astros)

The pitchers who Feldman and Norris supplanted include Hammel (5.14 ERA in 23 starts), Garcia (5.88 in 10), Britton (5.45 in 7), Gausman (7.66 in 5) and Arrieta (7.23 in 5). Obviously there will be injuries and someone besides the five listed above will make some starts, but at least all five of these guys have some kind of a track record as a major league starter at this point. I think it's pretty reasonable to expect that our starters' ERA would drop from the 2013 figure of 4.57 to somewhere in the region of 4.20-4.30 (the average for the five above is 4.10).

4.20-4.30 is not going to get the O's very far. Tillman and Gonzo have to get closer to what they did in 2012. Gausman is going to have to develop into a below 4.00 ERA starter and the O's need to trade for a better fourth starter.

The goal should be the World Series with DD and Buck pushing for improvements not status quo.

[Redskins Rick]

4.20-4.30 is not going to get the O's very far. Tillman and Gonzo have to get closer to what they did in 2012. Gausman is going to have to develop into a below 4.00 ERA starter and the O's need to trade for a better fourth starter.

The goal should be the World Series with DD and Buck pushing for improvements not status quo.

Tillman won 16 games, and should have had 20 games, if it hadn't been for the bullpen.

[El Gordo]

4.20-4.30 is not going to get the O's very far. Tillman and Gonzo have to get closer to what they did in 2012. Gausman is going to have to develop into a below 4.00 ERA starter and the O's need to trade for a better fourth starter.

The goal should be the World Series with DD and Buck pushing for improvements not status quo.

Why not answer my simple question. How do you propose we make our SP better? Why not deal with the possible for a change, instead of some fantasy world ideal. Sure we should have a guy like Kerhaw or Price to head our rotation. But since we can't, the best we can do in the real world is increase the number of R we score and hope our SP can improve a bit on it's own. We have 4mid rotation- back rotation SP, already adding a couple more won't help. Getting a LF who could produce 80 -100 more R might.

[Singleton]

Good opening post. It would also be useful to include their '14 salaries. We are fortunate to have 6 guys of this quality under team control next season. The question is if we can't buy our way out of other problems, how do we improve? Aside from Schoop and Gausman, we don't have much in the minors that is likely to help much in '14 and we don't seem to have much payroll flexibility.

I've made this comment in other threads about Hardy but I'd be very nervous about extending him even through the '16 season (and I doubt he goes for just 2 years). I don't think we "must" trade him at all but we should explore it and see what we'd get in return. His value will likely never be higher and he's at the point in his career where he could rather suddenly decline.

Weiters is another guy I'd be curious about. I doubt I would trade him either but I'd want to gauge his value and if he brought back a bounty that filled a few holes....i'd certainly consider it.

If neither would bring back enough -- I'm not sure where that leaves us. Most likely we'll look pretty much like this year. We pick up an aging vet for LF and DH. Sign a Feldman like starting pitcher and a few bullpen arms and hope for the best.

I suspect that will leave us with a similar result to the last two years. If we're a bit lucky, we go to the postseason. If we're not, we contend until the end and watch others in October. That doesn't feel like enough for me and I'd be inclined to take a chance and shake things up but I'm probably in the minority.

[Frobby]

Tillman won 16 games, and should have had 20 games, if it hadn't been for the bullpen.

Tillman had some bad fortune at the end of the year, but overall 16-7 is pretty representative of his season. He had a few fortunate non-decisions (3.2 IP 5 ER, 4.2 IP 6 ER, 5 IP 4 ER) mixed in with the ones where he pitched well. The team went 5-5 in the games where he was no-decisioned.

[wildcard]

Why not answer my simple question. How do you propose we make our SP better? Why not deal with the possible for a change, instead of some fantasy world ideal. Sure we should have a guy like Kerhaw or Price to head our rotation. But since we can't, the best we can do in the real world is increase the number of R we score and hope our SP can improve a bit on it's own. We have 4mid rotation- back rotation SP, already adding a couple more won't help. Getting a LF who could produce 80 -100 more R might.

I don't do fantasy. I would sign Feldman as the 5th starter because I think they can. Then put Chen, Hunter and Britton on the market along with some minor leaguers(not Wright or ERod or Schoop). Hunter though he throws hard can't get lefties out. The pen can't have several guys that can only get out one side. Matusz as a loogy- ok. But not two or three of those guys. O'Day and Patton are fine. They both can get out both sides, they just had a bad year. I think the O's can add a free agent reliever if the trade Hunter.

I am not talking Price or Kershaw. Someone about as good as Gonzo would do fine. Gonzo is going to win 3-5 more games than he loses in a full season. We need to better than .500 pitchers for the top 4 spots in the rotation.

Its alright to trade Norris but the O's need someone who still has options in return.

[eddie83]

I don't do fantasy. I would sign Feldman as the 5th starter because I think they can. Then put Chen, Hunter and Britton on the market along with some minor leaguers(not Wright or ERod or Schoop). Hunter though he throws hard can't get lefties out. The pen can't have several guys that can only get out one side. Matusz as a loogy- ok. But not two or three of those guys. O'Day and Patton are fine. They both can get out both sides, they just had a bad year. I think the O's can add a free agent reliever if the trade Hunter.

I am not talking Price or Kershaw. Someone about as good as Gonzo would do fine. Gonzo is going to win 3-5 more games than he loses in a full season. We need to better than .500 pitchers for the top 4 spots in the rotation.

Its alright to trade Norris but the O's need someone who still has options in return.

Why deal Chen if you want someone as good as Gonzo? Chen is solid and has a reasonable contract for the next 2 years. I have no issue trying to deal the other guys including Matusz IMO.

If you trade Chen than are basically trying to find someone else to replace him.