Are we giving Urrutia a fair shake?

[twinedenter]

Big difference between a mediocre SS with good speed and a mediocre LF with poor speed.

dunno about that. I bloop single to the opposite field, is a bloop single, regardless of speed.

[Orioles1954]

Have you got actually watched him hit?

He swings from the inside out. IE He stays inside the ball with the barrel of the bat. So, it looks like his bat is slow to normal people.

Kinda funny, a certain SS for the NY Yankees hits that exact same way. He was/is kinda good.....

Exactly! I trust my own eyes and we shouldn't confuse bat control for being slow. I was quite impressed with Urrutia and while I'm not ready to hand LF over to him he definitely should be in the conversation. That is why we have ST. Now Matt Wieters.....that is a slooooowwwww bat.

[Since'54]

The problem is his 58 PAs in the majors confirmed the concerns about his approach in the minor leagues. It also opened up concerns over his bat speed and whether he can handle good major league fastballs on the inside of the plate without cheating. I will feel better once I start seeing Urrutia turning on pitches for power, but a slow opposite field singles hitter is not going to cut it in the major leagues.

Now saying that, he appeared to take some steps in the AFL so hopefully it's just a matter of him making some adjustments. It's too early to make a definitive assessment yet, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't see some yellow flags last year.

Wade Boggs says hello. Averaged 8 homers over career. In fairness, 38 doubles annually.

[twinedenter]

Exactly! I trust my own eyes and we shouldn't confuse bat control for being slow. I was quite impressed with Urrutia and while I'm not ready to hand LF over to him he definitely should be in the conversation. That is why we have ST. Now Matt Wieters.....that is a slooooowwwww bat.

Actually I am not sure if Weiters issue is a slow bat. He has a VERY long swing from the left side.

In short, from the right: He swings the bat off of his shoulder directly to the ball. IE when he starts his swing the bat is on his shoulder. This keeps the bat very short to the ball and when your 6'5 and have lots of leverage, its all you need.

from the left: Just before he starts his swing the bat comes up slightly and hands raise causing a small "hitch". This is making his swing longer and not allowing him to barrel up on hittable pitches.

The things I am saying are very apparent from the highlights of the season from MASN.

His approach is very bad too. He looks at very hittable pitches, in hitters counts, with runners on. Then takes a tough pitch for strike three or is forced to protect and hits a weak popup somewhere. He doesn't know when to adjust his approach based on the things I mentioned for Urrutia. Count, guessing location and pitch, etc. Difference is, Weiters is much more experienced than Urrutia and still hasn't figured it out yet.

[Ruzious]

Have you got actually watched him hit?

He swings from the inside out. IE He stays inside the ball with the barrel of the bat. So, it looks like his bat is slow to normal people.

Kinda funny, a certain SS for the NY Yankees hits that exact same way. He was/is kinda good.....

I can see why you didn't say Jeter's name, because to make any kind of comparison between him and Urritia would be laughoutloudable. It goes without saying that Urritia fails mightily in comparison to Jeter in every conceivable baseball skill - including anything having to do with swinging a bat.

[atomic]

You guys are sure negative against him. I like what I saw and I don't think he was given a fair chance. If a guy hits for an out of the world average everywhere he goes he deserves a chance to prove he can do it at the big league levels. And the Orioles man scout in Latin America has had a little bit of success in knowing what guys can make it to the bigs.

And You don't have to be a big power hitter to be successful. Rod Carew managed Ok.

[twinedenter]

I can see why you didn't say Jeter's name, because to make any kind of comparison between him and Urritia would be laughoutloudable. It goes without saying that Urritia fails mightily in comparison to Jeter in every conceivable baseball skill - including anything having to do with swinging a bat.

Thats your opinion and it is correct. We may NEVER know what Urrutia is capable of. However, I stand by my comment that they have VERY similar approaches to hitting. Doesn't mean one isn't superior to the other

[LookinUp]

Him hitting a 450ft home run PROVES he has power. IMO there is not debating that. You can either hit a 450ft homer or you can't. It takes a ton of bat speed to hit a ball that far or your very strong.

Far be it for me to disagree with a former ML player, but there's a difference between a player having the physical ability to hit a ball 450 ft and a player having in-game power. I hit baseballs 400 feet in high school and I was a bean pole, but not with an approach that was conducive to high contact rates (pulled off of everything). That's what Tony was saying. Urrutia's approach, so far, is not conducive to consistent in-game power.

I can see why you didn't say Jeter's name, because to make any kind of comparison between him and Urritia would be laughoutloudable.

Lol. Jeter's inside-out approach is the new Randy Johnson (lack of control can be fixed) or Jamie Moyer (you don't need velocity).

You guys are sure negative against him.

I disagree about this. People aren't negative as much as realistic. Urrutia has one tool, and that too might not be exceptional enough to overcome the lack of the other four tools.

And, for the record, can we stop comparing 27 year old players with no history of lofty prospect status and unspectacular ML experience to Jeter, Boggs, Carew and other all time greats?

[Tony-OH]

I don't disagree and maybe I don't know scouting, but I do know hitting. I am a former minor league shortstop.

Him hitting a 450ft home run PROVES he has power. IMO there is not debating that. You can either hit a 450ft homer or you can't. It takes a ton of bat speed to hit a ball that far or your very strong. Since Henry is a bean pole, I will go with bat speed.

Hitting a 450 foot home run means he has raw power, not consistent game time power. Big difference.

Power is learned by a hitter from adjusting his approach based on a variety of situations. The count, pitchers tendencies, guessing on pitches and location etc. That all comes from experience and Henry doesn't have it yet. BUT by no means does it mean he won't. He has the power.

To say that his current approach isn't conducive to him hitting home runs, is like saying Bundy needs to work on his fastball command to be a good major league pitcher. Its true of every pitcher and takes time and experience, just like Henry needs. He needs to learn WHEN to adjust his approach.

Unfortunately, that's not totally true when it comes to approach. Some players have a game time line drive approach. Some players don't create the leverage in their swing that allows for backspin and carry and others have an approach that is more contact oriented. There are a ton of reasons why a player may have raw power that does not translate to power in the major leagues.

I've seen him in the minors several games as well as most of his major league PAs, and it's not that it's bad that Urrutia is good at inside outing good inside fastballs, but it appears to be his approach on ALL inside fastballs. He has shown no ability to pull that pitch for power on any kind of consistent basis and in fact, his spray charts make him look like a right-handed pull-hitter.

Everything you talk about experience is true (although the best hitters don't "guess" pitches), but Urrutia will have to totally rework his approach in order to hit for power in the big leagues. It's great that he supposedly hit a 450 foot bomb in AZ, but what he needs to show is a consistent ability to pull balls for power. If he makes this adjustment, then I could see him tapping into that raw power a bit more.

I never said he can't possibly do it, I'm just saying his current approach is not conducive towards hitting for power in the major leagues and hitting a 450 bomb in the altitude of AZ doesn't change this.

[atomic]

Far be it for me to disagree with a former ML player, but there's a difference between a player having the physical ability to hit a ball 450 ft and a player having in-game power. I hit baseballs 400 feet in high school and I was a bean pole, but not with an approach that was conducive to high contact rates (pulled off of everything). That's what Tony was saying. Urrutia's approach, so far, is not conducive to consistent in-game power.

Lol. Jeter's inside-out approach is the new Randy Johnson (lack of control can be fixed) or Jamie Moyer (you don't need velocity).

I disagree about this. People aren't negative as much as realistic. Urrutia has one tool, and that too might not be exceptional enough to overcome the lack of the other four tools.

And, for the record, can we stop comparing 27 year old players with no history of lofty prospect status and unspectacular ML experience to Jeter, Boggs, Carew and other all time greats?

Well he didn't get into this country until last year. I don't know how his age has do with anything when he wasn't allowed by law to play here. He has shown to hit at every place he has played. I prefer him to Reimold who is much older and had proven track record of failure.

[Tony-OH]

You guys are sure negative against him. I like what I saw and I don't think he was given a fair chance. If a guy hits for an out of the world average everywhere he goes he deserves a chance to prove he can do it at the big league levels. And the Orioles man scout in Latin America has had a little bit of success in knowing what guys can make it to the bigs.

And You don't have to be a big power hitter to be successful. Rod Carew managed Ok.

Just giving my scouting opinion of him. I hope he makes the adjustments and does well, but the game has changed a lot since the Rod Carew days. BTW, Rod Carew had 1,048 big league hits by the time he was Urrutia's age.

[mdbdotcom]

He should change his name to Urethra. Then they can give him a fair shake. If they don't, you know what he'll be.

[Can_of_corn]

dunno about that. I bloop single to the opposite field, is a bloop single, regardless of speed.

First off a good runner is going to end up with more hits then a poor runner.

Secondly, if CPT Jetes was a mediocre left fielder who couldn't run, rather then a mediocre SS who could run he wouldn't be in the running for the HoF. An 828 OPS is quite good for a middle infielder, but for a corner outfielder...(of course a wheelless Jeter wouldn't have an 828 OPS)

[coe76]

This is an interesting thread to read. Seems a lot of folks are

focused on his HR power/lack of and the number of pitches he hits to left. My attitude is, if I can find a LF who can

consistently hit .310-.315 with at least doubles

power I can be happy, assuming I have other guys who can

hammer bombs out. I also acknowledge what has been said

about the concerns on Henry handling hard in stuff. However, if his approach is to hit those pitches into left, I can live with

that. Saw Carew do that often enough when I was young.

The point I make to my H. S. players is this. Does it make a

difference if you hit a double to left center or right center?

The answer obviously is, it makes no difference, it is still a

double. If a hitter can wait on a pitch and hit it oppo, or

simply flick it oppo based on pitch location, then hats off to

him. I am not concerned about whether a hitter has "perfect"

tools, I just want him to find a way to hit effectively and get

on base. So far, Henry seems to have found a way. I can be

patient to see if he can carry that talent onto the Major League level.

I just hope he gets that chance.

[twinedenter]

Hitting a 450 foot home run means he has raw power, not consistent game time power. Big difference.

Unfortunately, that's not totally true when it comes to approach. Some players have a game time line drive approach. Some players don't create the leverage in their swing that allows for backspin and carry and others have an approach that is more contact oriented. There are a ton of reasons why a player may have raw power that does not translate to power in the major leagues.

I've seen him in the minors several games as well as most of his major league PAs, and it's not that it's bad that Urrutia is good at inside outing good inside fastballs, but it appears to be his approach on ALL inside fastballs. He has shown no ability to pull that pitch for power on any kind of consistent basis and in fact, his spray charts make him look like a right-handed pull-hitter.

Everything you talk about experience is true (although the best hitters don't "guess" pitches), but Urrutia will have to totally rework his approach in order to hit for power in the big leagues. It's great that he supposedly hit a 450 foot bomb in AZ, but what he needs to show is a consistent ability to pull balls for power. If he makes this adjustment, then I could see him tapping into that raw power a bit more.

I never said he can't possibly do it, I'm just saying his current approach is not conducive towards hitting for power in the major leagues and hitting a 450 bomb in the altitude of AZ doesn't change this.

-I agree BUT He hit that home run in a game. Are you saying he can't do it again? You either have that kind of raw power or you don't. The point is that he has to adjust. The homer was to center, which doesn't support my argument very well

The short version of this is:

-Your right he hasn't shown ability to hit home runs yet. But he has raw power.

-I agree he looks like a right handed pull hitter, but I believe through experience, he will learn to drive the ball. That adjustment is up to him. But, IMO, with his bat control, he will learn to get the bat head out and turn on pitches, in particular counts at least. He obviously has an idea what he is doing at the plate.

-As far as guess hitting, I think you could ask one of the greatest clutch hitters of all time, Eddie Murray. He has said MANY times that he guessed, alot. I think guess hitting or "expecting" pitches is very common. If the guys throwing 98, in order to hit it, you have to cheat some.

Urrutia does have a short, quick, inside out swing. Probably the worst "mechanics" to hit home runs, but from the 450ft homer, he has the power. The question is will be "learn" to hit homers and I think he will and could hit 15-20.