Criticism of Duquette

[SilentJames]

You can? Depends on your cable provider.

NFL Channel and the Red zone are considered preminums channels by some providers.

I can watch the Ravens' game on WJZ with rabbit ears.

[Redskins Rick]

I can watch the Ravens' game on WJZ with rabbit ears.

LOL.

I am old enough to remember Rabbit ears and putting aluminum foil on my antenna.

[SteveO]

Shouldn't this thread just be merged with the Angelos Vent Thread?

Why?

Right now we are debating how baseball has lost its place as Americas game.....I am not gonna blame Pete for that lol. I get what you might be implying but this is one thing Pete is not to blame for IMO

Though he has done the Orioles brand no favors in terms of competing with the juggernaut that is the NFL, I can hardly fault him for lack of foreward thinking shown by baseball types over the past 20-30 years.

[SilentJames]

They need somebody to build a video game and stick somebody's name on it, like they did with Madden. Madden is why Gen X love the game of football, they buy the game, new every single year and they play so much, its hard to get them off the box.

No its not. That is really short-sighted. Football works in game form better than baseball because of the action involved. Madden is what allows Bro-ish football fans to play video games. Jocks didn't play video games until Madden came along - Madden brought them to the well. Even then, Madden doesn't get HUGE until the playstation generation.

[russ snyder]

Yes this is true, but there-in lies the point. The Orioles aren't regularly drawing more than league average in attendance until AFTER the Colts leave. Its simple econ, the Colts take a certain amount of entertainment dollars out of the pool. when they leave, the entertainment dollars get re-allocated back to the Orioles.

A generation of people grew up with the Orioles as THE team. They grew up with Cal, Brady, D-veaux, Orsulak, Tettleton, Hoiles, Moose, Scottie Erickson, Lee Smith, et al. The Orioles and Camden were IT, and they were THE PLACE TO BE. Especially for someone growing up in the mind-numbing suburban wasteland of Harford County like me.

But, historically, the evidence is too strong to ignore. Baltimore was a football town. The Colts were king for a very very long time. it is the reason why the COLTS marching band survived. It is the reason why people STILL hate Irsay, it is the reason why I still cringe when I see the Colts succeed. It is why I know people get upset when they see Indi players wearing those awesome Colts throwback shirts in practice.

This is not to denigrate the Orioles in any way, but it reality of the sports and the logistics of how they are marketed and how they CAN be marketed to the populace.

The NFL is the most popular sports league in America. These reasons you posted galvanize why football is THE sport in Baltimore. Couple this with the NFL marketing its sport year round with free agency, the draft, mini-camps, training camps, and exhibition games it's no wonder why football is the most popular sport in town.

[SilentJames]

LOL.

I am old enough to remember Rabbit ears and putting aluminum foil on my antenna.

What? I don't have cable, the expense was oo great for a lot of bad TV I never watched. But I can still watch Ravens games. The fact that you automatically assumed that one needed the NFL Network and Red Zone to watch a game (or if not needed you didn't even consider the fact that they are on broadcast TV) proves the point that football is king, even in Baltimore.

[scOtt]

But you have to PAY for cable. Football can be watched by anyone for free, mostly.

And watch any football game, anywhere on any platform. Thanks baseball.

[SteveO]

They need somebody to build a video game and stick somebody's name on it, like they did with Madden. Madden is why Gen X love the game of football, they buy the game, new every single year and they play so much, its hard to get them off the box.

You got it all wrong. The popularity of the Madden game is a function of the popularity of the sport...not the other way around.

There are MLB equivalents that do decent sales. They would do more sales if kids were interested in baseball.

I talk to a lot of my son (who is 18 and loves baseball) friends about sports. It really comes down to options. We grew up watching baseball, going to the games and spending our time playing with the stats, baseball cards etc.

The kids today have more choices than we ever did and its that bold part that is key. Football realized it needed to evolve to compete and did. Baseball did not. Its that simple. Baseball is not as entertaining to watch unless you understand the nuances of it. We really had very few viewing options so we learned those nuances and grew to love the game. Kids today flip it to Football, Basketball, and a pantheon of other entertainment choices. Baseball needs to learn how to streamline, entertain and market if they want to return to their former glory.

[Redskins Rick]

No its not. That is really short-sighted. Football works in game form better than baseball because of the action involved. Madden is what allows Bro-ish football fans to play video games. Jocks didn't play video games until Madden came along - Madden brought them to the well. Even then, Madden doesn't get HUGE until the playstation generation.

It was a combination of playstation, and buying the rights to use NFL players in the game.

Jocks are a smaller population than the 75% of the rest of the kids.

Madden Football has made billions and made football popular to all Gen Xers.

[SilentJames]

The NFL is the most popular sports league in America. These reasons you posted galvanize why football is THE sport in Baltimore. Couple this with the NFL marketing its sport year round with free agency, the draft, mini-camps, training camps, and exhibition games it's no wonder why football is the most popular sport in town.

Most of the stuff you mentioned if the NFL draining EVERY - LAST - PENNY out of its customers. The reason football became huge is every game is an event. It works great on commercial TV, its timed making it easy to schedule. You have built-in commercial breaks that are a boon for advertisers, and simple supply of games make every seat artificially scarce thus driving up the prices and forcing the league to make the TV product just that much better because they know that is how a large majority of the fan base will usually follow the team.

What we see now is the NFL taking that "event" lesson and really going insane and disgusting with it. The draft is stupid, I'm sorry it is. After the first round it is a giant waste of time. It is the same for baseball too. Drafts are boring. And if you don't believe me, just watch the intro to Sunday Night Football on NBC - my God, that is simply the most annoying, ridiculous, ludicrous, nightmare. WHY IS IT SO LONG?! WHY?!

The reason, it is another minute for Verizon to flash a logo at you.

[mdbdotcom]

Football's been big for quite a while now.

[video=youtube;q4Qlk7sfZfQ]

[atomic]

No its not. That is really short-sighted. Football works in game form better than baseball because of the action involved. Madden is what allows Bro-ish football fans to play video games. Jocks didn't play video games until Madden came along - Madden brought them to the well. Even then, Madden doesn't get HUGE until the playstation generation.

Madden sold well on Sega. I don't know what this has to do with anything. People buy tons of Tiger Woods Golf, Basketball games, NHL games, FIFA games. Really baseball just is probably the least fun video game for sports. Probably the most boring game to play as well. It is fun to go to baseball games and drink beer outside and join in the chants.

[SilentJames]

You got it all wrong. The popularity of the Madden game is a function of the popularity of the sport...not the other way around.

There are MLB equivalents that do decent sales. They would do more sales if kids were interested in baseball.

I talk to a lot of my son (who is 18 and loves baseball) friends about sports. It really comes down to options. We grew up watching baseball, going to the games and spending our time playing with the stats, baseball cards etc.

The kids today have more choices than we ever did and its that bold part that is key. Football realized it needed to evolve to compete and did. Baseball did not. Its that simple. Baseball is not as entertaining to watch unless you understand the nuances of it. We really had very few viewing options so we learned those nuances and grew to love the game. Kids today flip it to Football, Basketball, and a pantheon of other entertainment choices. Baseball needs to learn how to streamline, entertain and market if they want to return to their former glory.

But that is the nature of the sport. What you are advocating is changing the nature of the sport to match your perception of kids. That is a Sisyphean task, EVERY generation will have "more choices" than the previous generation. Until the nuclear holocaust comes, that will be true of everything. Football hasn't significantly changed much except the general tendency to more passing and explosive offensive plays. That had more to do with the natural progression and expansion of the league than any one thing that the league dictated. One would argue that they are ruining the game because of the way they are changing it (pass-interference penalties and the coddling of quarterbacks) while they chase the money of the public.

Yes baseball has more to compete with more choices on the dial, but ratings keep going up as well as overall attendance. The development of the RSN has saved it. And the first RSN to start simulcasting online, for a fee, will truly be the winner.

And it will kill cable companies.

[SilentJames]

Madden sold well on Sega. I don't know what this has to do with anything. People buy tons of Tiger Woods Golf, Basketball games, NHL games, FIFA games. Really baseball just is probably the least fun video game for sports. Probably the most boring game to play as well. It is fun to go to baseball games and drink beer outside and join in the chants.

This explains a lot.

[SteveO]

Most of the stuff you mentioned if the NFL draining EVERY - LAST - PENNY out of its customers. The reason football became huge is every game is an event. It works great on commercial TV, its timed making it easy to schedule. You have built-in commercial breaks that are a boon for advertisers, and simple supply of games make every seat artificially scarce thus driving up the prices and forcing the league to make the TV product just that much better because they know that is how a large majority of the fan base will usually follow the team.

What we see now is the NFL taking that "event" lesson and really going insane and disgusting with it. The draft is stupid, I'm sorry it is. After the first round it is a giant waste of time. It is the same for baseball too. Drafts are boring. And if you don't believe me, just watch the intro to Sunday Night Football on NBC - my God, that is simply the most annoying, ridiculous, ludicrous, nightmare. WHY IS IT SO LONG?! WHY?!

The reason, it is another minute for Verizon to flash a logo at you.

It's all about marketing and tailoring your game to that marketing.

Why do you think the rules are geared towards offense in the NFL? Why do you think QB's are protected? They get the fact its about action and making things happen.

You know we all sit here and blast guys like McGuire, Clemens, Sosa, Raffy and rightfully so to some extent but the reality is that baseball was desperate at that point and INTENTIONALLY turned a blind eye to the use of PED's because it they learned it helped market the sport (the resulting increase in offense etc).

I find it laughable that all the owners, GM's, writers etc act as if they are some kind of purists who never went along with the idea of PEDS use. When guys like Brady Anderson started hitting 50 HR and suddenly Bonds/Sosa etc is wacking 60+ like its no problem you either can bury your head in the sand and pretend like these guys are doing it on their own or realize that a sudden and massive spike in numbers like that are likely due to some kind of PED. Maybe the average fan was not aware they were available at that point but writers, GM's and people who follow sports did.

It was only once the outrage started with the everyday fan that everyone decided to stand for purity in the sport, pretended like they never benefited. Hell half the guys standing on their soap box now about Clemens, Bonds and the bunch made their careers covering them guys in their heyday on PEDS. They were either very very stupid or just looking the other way while the golden goose was laying its eggs. I am guessing its the later.